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Multifamily Prices Can Only Go Up From Here – Andrew Cushman

Welcome to this episode! Today, we’re diving into the dynamic world of real estate investment with our esteemed guest, Andrew Cushman, Founder & Principal at Vantage Point Acquisitions. Andrew’s journey from chemical engineer to real estate mogul is a testament to the transformative power of entrepreneurial spirit.

In this episode, Andrew delves into the intricacies of real estate investment during uncertain times, shedding light on the benefits and challenges inherent in navigating the ever-changing landscape of the multifamily market. With his finger on the pulse of the industry, Andrew provides invaluable insights into the current state of the real estate market and identifies potential investment opportunities ripe for exploration.

Join us for an enlightening discussion as Andrew shares his insights garnered from over a decade of experience in the industry. Departing from his corporate roots in 2007, Andrew ventured into real estate investment, initially focusing on flipping single-family properties in Southern California. Sensing market shifts, he adeptly transitioned to multifamily acquisitions in 2011, successfully syndicating and repositioning over 2,600 multifamily units.

From discussions on equity, funding, and market trends to the importance of staying informed and prepared for investment opportunities, Andrew offers a wealth of knowledge to both seasoned investors and newcomers alike. His expertise and perspective are not to be missed.

Tune in now to gain exclusive access to Andrew Cushman’s wealth of experience and unlock the keys to success in the dynamic world of real estate investment. Whether you’re a seasoned investor or an aspiring entrepreneur, this episode promises to inform, inspire, and empower. Don’t miss out!

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Full Transcript:

Bronson Hill: All right. So this is an interview with Andrew Cushman, good friend of mine. He is awesome. He always has a very data focused approach. If you’re wondering if this is a good time to invest, we get into that. He really has the opinion that it’s the best time to invest right now. And again,you’ll see this. In assets, in investing. When really looking back, the best time to invest was the time that no one wanted to invest. Right? The best time to start buying real estate in recent history really was 2008, 2010, whatever, but nobody was buying.

And we get into that in the interview. And so right now, I mean, you know, you’re buying price of a property is fixed, but your interest rate can be adjusted later. And so we’re wondering, as interest rates drop, what will happen to multifamily prices? They will likely go up because there’s a short supply.

And you know, when you lower the cost of those assets or the cost of money to get those assets, pricing will likely go up. So you’re going to love this interview. Let’s jump in without further ado. Andrew Cushman. All right, Andrew, welcome to the Mailbox Money Show. How you doing brother?

Andrew Cushman: Doing well, Bronson. Good to see you once again.

Bronson Hill: Oh, it’s always good to see you, man. I always learn something. And when I see you on Zoom, I always see all the outdoorsy stuff I should be doing, like riding skateboards and surfboards. So you’ve been doing much of that lately?

Andrew Cushman: Not as much. I’m about to get started though. You know what I should do in the winter? I should move, switch out the surf boards and put all the skis on the wall. Cause that’s what I’m really focused on. I mean, I was surfing not this month, but now, nowadays it’s mostly skiing. So I should swap it out and have seasonal decor.

Bronson Hill: We do live in Southern Cal, so technically you can, you know, ski in the morning and surf in the afternoon. I don’t know if you’ve ever done that.

Andrew Cushman: I’ve done the reverse. I went surfing in the morning, had lunch at home and went snow skiing in the afternoon. Like it wasn’t even that hard. You know, you didn’t have to like heroic efforts to do it. It was like, ah, it stopped for lunch. So yeah, not, maybe New Zealand.

Other than that, I don’t know too many places that you’re going to surf in not sub freezing water and then go skiing in the afternoon.

Bronson Hill: Yeah, that’s awesome. I love it. Well, I love your adventures and you know, a little bit about your story, and I know you’ve been on the show before, and we’ve had you at our local meetup, which has been awesome.

Tell us, give people that don’t know you just a little bit of background about yourself and how you got started in real estate and just kind of what brings you to today.

Andrew Cushman: I took the typical path into real estate, which is: I went and got an engineering degree. And worked as an engineer, not because I loved, you know, that’s what I wanted to do for a career.

I just, I knew as a kid, I wanted to have my own company and do my own thing. I just didn’t know how or what that looked like. So I’m like, well, if I become a chemical engineer, I’ll always have a job and it always pays well. Right. And then I’ll figure it out. So worked as an engineer for seven and a half years, discovered flipping.

Here in Southern California. So 2007, which was right before the great financial crisis, flipped our, my wife and I flipped a condo and, you know, we made as much as I made all year at my job. So I’m like, all right, there’s no better sign than that. I quit my job right before everything came crashing down, which was great timing because we had no competition flipped houses.

For four years, full time here in Southern California. And then, you know, everyone else kind of started saying, wait a second, there’s, there’s, there’s a good business over here. So I started getting crowded. And more importantly, my wife and I were like, Hey, you know, you flip a house, she put a check in the bank and then you got nothing else to show for it.

I mean, it’s a good business, but, there’s nothing left. She said, well, what creates longer term wealth and cash flow? And what is like, we just had a big crash. Everyone and their mother either got foreclosed on and can’t buy a house for the next seven years, or they know someone who just got foreclosed on and they don’t want to buy a house because they’re scared of it.

So, okay, so no one’s buying houses or and won’t be for a while. And then we just had a huge recession, which probably means we’re going to have a big, long expansion. So you put those two things together with economic expansion and no one buying houses. We figured, okay, that should be really good for rentals.

How do you get, how do you benefit from that? Oh, apartments. And so we went and found a mentor. Our first deal was 92 units out in Macon, Georgia. And I haven’t looked back. It’s been a great business for the last 13 years now.

Bronson Hill: Yeah, that’s awesome. And I love it. And you’ve been doing it for a while, which is great.

I know you contribute on bigger pockets and a lot of places where you’re sharing information, which you know, you have a very you study a lot and you look at a lot of different things. And it really is interesting when you hear people that study and research have been doing this a while, which is really fun.

But you know, as we talked about, we had you at the meetup, I think in the fall you know, things look very different than they did about two years ago and something has happened some little thing about rates, you know, increasing faster than they have in the last, you know, anytime in the last 40, 45 years.

What are, what are some things that you’ve seen to change or maybe that kind of where we’re at right now, obviously it’s harder to get deals done, but what are, what are some things that you’re seeing both from a kind of a negative and a positive standpoint from where we’re at right now?

Andrew Cushman: Well, it’s deals being hard to get done since we closed our last one which was the spring of 2023, we have looked at 478 deals and gotten the zero, right? So,

Bronson Hill: But at least you’re swinging the bat, right?

Andrew Cushman: Yeah, exactly. So one of the, one of the, one of the, one of the driving factors behind that is one of the things that’s changed in that, you know, multifamily operations are actually still quite well.

Like when we look at our portfolio. For December, a third of our properties set all time high records for collections, and then the rest of them were pretty close to it. So, like, yeah, no, don’t get me wrong, there’s challenges with insurance expense and wages and contractors and all this thing, but that’s just part of the business.

But overall, Fundamentals are good. And so, okay, well, that’s what has made the change. And like you said, it’s interest rates going from, you know, the federal funds rate effectively from zero to 500 something in a very short period of time. That was a shock to the system. It was too quick for anybody to adjust or plan for.

And so what that did is it made it so. Number one, anyone trying to buy a property, their cost of their debt doubled or tripled, and so they’re like, Hey, Mr. Seller, yeah, I would have paid you 12 million in January of 2022, but now my debt costs. You know, double. So I can only pay you 9 million or maybe eight and a half.

And so then, but the seller, like I said, operations are still good. So the seller’s like, no, I’m not selling it to you for that. I’m just going to keep it. And so the market just shut down and it has been that way. Almost ever since a volume and 2023, depending on who’s giving you the stats, somewhere between 20 to 25 percent of normal, like a fifth of the normal transactions.

Right. So I know, I can’t tell you how many brokers I’ve gotten email announcements from.It’s like, hey, I’ve left brokerage and I’ve gone to some other job because, they were a junior broker and they didn’t have the longstanding relationships. And again, they were making a fifth of what they were previously.

So that’s a big change. And now on the, and so, you know, again, sellers haven’t been motivated. Buyers are like, I can’t pay you that anymore. And so everything just came to a screaming halt that is getting ready to shift. It is already shifting. And that’s part of why I’m excited about the next couple of years. Because things are, things are moving back the other way.

Bronson Hill: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It’s interesting too. I just had a panel recently with some big thinkers and talked about kind of what’s happened in multifamily. Some pricing has come down a little bit, but the rates have been higher. You know, with some single family, it’s been a shocker.

The last couple of years, prices on average have gone up like two or 3 percent across the country, just total. And because no one wants to sell, they didn’t predict that, hey, if somebody sells, At a 3 percent rate that they have, they’re going to move somewhere else and pay 7, 8 percent on a new single family mortgage.

But with commercial multifamily, we’ve seen there’s an area of Atlanta. I give this example that we own in where just the same property you know, 2 years apart from, you know, January of last month to 2 years prior, 24 months earlier has decreased by 42%. Just the actual, you know. Price or value of that asset, which is really, you know, it was tough as an operator, you know, if you’re going for like a, you’re just trying to hold things longer, we’ve seen a lot of, you know, a lot of people talk, I had to call somebody earlier, I was talking about, you know, troubled assets and have you started your troubled asset fund?

And I think, you know, I’m kind of seeing like, I know people started this stuff like two years ago. And I’m not seeing necessarily the trouble out there. And even then I’m seeing lenders or stories of lenders that are just extending terms. They’re kind of like, Oh, well, yeah, obviously you can’t pay.

And we’re just going to extend terms. Are you seeing that kind of out there where it’s like things kind of get in trouble and then it’s like, well, the lender doesn’t want the property and they see your, you know, the group’s doing okay. And they’re like, well, we’re going to kind of extend you.

Andrew Cushman: Absolutely. And this is why you’ll never see a poster interview with me predicting doom. I can’t, there is no crash coming. In, in commercial real estate. Well, may, okay. I set office aside. That’s a different animal. Right. And it’s not, I’m not an expert in, actually, I’m probably not an expert in anything, but it’s terms of multifamily where I have the most knowledge relative to me.

I would say number one, price declines are done. Like we’re not going down any further because operations are still quite good and the not the really the only driver between front behind price declines whereas the rapid rise in interest rates just the cost of debt people still want to own multifamily but they’re like well my debt is more expensive so I have to pay you 30 percent less and then You know, sellers are like, well, I’m not going to take that.

And so that’s what’s led to the price decline, but nothing has almost nothing has traded. And so there aren’t comparable sales. And what we’re seeing in real time is properties that we’re bidding on. And we actually sold one recently. We had 16 offers. On the property that we sold, we did not have any difficulty selling that property and we hit our target pricing.

And we’re seeing the same thing on properties that we are trying to buy, even off market where they’re going for at least what the, you know, the, the target number was in some cases, even more part of the reason for that being interest rates have stabilized. Markets hate nothing more than uncertainty.

And the Fed has now come out and said, Hey, we’re, we’re done raising rates. Now the market’s like, okay, interest rates have kind of come back down. So if you get the 10 year, it’s come down about 90 basis points between from the high to where it is trading about today. It’s pretty, it seems pretty likely with an election year coming that we’re not going to, you know, our, our, our government’s not going to do anything to cause a major disruption.

The Fed is saying we’re leaning towards cutting rates. So basically what does that tell us? Well, that says 2024, the biggest. Cause of problems in the market is likely stabilized with a improving trend. And so that gives us a little bit more certainty. We’re going to see buyers come out. And also now we know what the rules to play by, how do you underwrite a property when interest rates are moving 50 basis points every two weeks?

Right. Well, you don’t know what interest rates are going to be like, how do you, how do you pick an exit cap? Like all this stuff just goes out the window when it’s bouncing like crazy. Now that that’s starting to settle out, that’s going to help loosen the market up. But also in terms of, you know, you mentioned seeing a property trade two years ago versus now.

You know, we’ve seen the same thing and those properties are, you know, if we say the peak pricing for multifamily was January of 2022, I’d say we’re off anywhere from 20 to 35. I’d say 40 is probably an extreme, but we’ll call it 20 to 40 percent in real time. The headlines don’t reflect that yet because comps comparable sales are looking in the rearview mirror.

Right. So a lot, not since there hasn’t been a lot trading, it hasn’t been in the headlines like, Oh, this is down 30 percent in real time, it feels like the bottom is in because number one, interest rates have stabilized and that was what really caused the decline. And then number two, there is so much dry powder, so much capital on the sidelines waiting for that traffic light to turn green.

That there is not going to be, there’s not going to be enough volume of deals coming to market to overwhelm the capital, ready to suck them up and absorb them. So to me, the bottom is in, I’m hoping we stay at bottom for at least 12 to 18 months so we can acquire some properties before things start heading back up.

But I mean, just one quick, you mentioned, you’ve mentioned people raising funds and rescue funds and all this stuff, just the money market. Funds in the United States from pre pre COVID to now the long term balance and money market funds was about 3 trillion. You want to guess what it is today?

Oh, I don’t know. 5 trillion, 6. 14 trillion at the, according to the St. Louis federal reserve at the end of Q3, 2023. So 3 trillion of cash went into these funds because Hey, now you can get 5%. What happens when interest rates come down? Well, that fund, that money is not earning anything. Where is it going to go? Alternative assets, things like, you know, Bitcoin, real estate and all that.

Just give it a perspective that, you know, the, the, the GDP of the world’s third largest economy, Japan, is 4. 2 trillion. So there is more money about almost 150 percent of the GDP of the world’s third largest economy sitting in accounts ready to be deployed. So again, once, once the market senses that opportunity is there, that, you know, those two things are going to put the, I think, put the bottom in.

Bronson Hill: Yeah. Yeah. That’s, I mean, it’s a really good, it’s a really good point. Now I know for a lot of people listening to the show, our investors and. A lot of, we talk about a lot of different assets on the show and a lot of people have been hurt by multifamily. And so there’s been capital calls at one investor call a few months ago.

So I’m in five different capital calls right now. And it’s kind of this like distaste for multifamily, but it could be that. And this is, you know, Warren Buffett talks about fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful that the best time to buy is the time of maximum pessimism. And I’m seeing some pessimism, particularly from retail investors, not as much from like larger investors, but especially retail investors.

What would you say to a retail investor that has had some seen challenges in multifamily? I mean, we could, do you think we could look back on this time and say, this was the perfect time to buy because rates were higher and as rates. Do drop as we predict, they likely will you know, your asset buying price is fixed, but the interest rate can be adjusted later.

What would you say to an investor who’s kind of really cautious? Like I’ve been hurt. Therefore, multifamily is bad, right?

Andrew Cushman: Yeah. I mean, you, you summarized it perfectly. Now is the time. And like, when When there’s pain, when people have been, when people have gotten hurt, when people are scared, when people are done with it, that is the time to be investing.

You flip, flip that narrative, go back to end of 2021. And then, you know, the first couple of months of 2022, it was the opposite, right? Multifamily was great. Everyone you knew was doubling their money, tripling their money. Well. Right. That was the worst time in a, over a decade to get in. And so like now it’s like, like you said, everyone, I lost money.

I’m getting capital calls. That tells you it’s the time to get in. And I really do think that anything that is bought at a good basis with reasonable cashflow today or this year, next year in held until 26, 27 and 28 is going to end up being a really good investment.

Bronson Hill: Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think that’s good. And I think a lot of people, it’s hard to see, you know, we, we’ve done a lot more cash flowing type of alternative assets now, because that’s what a lot of folks have wanted. A lot of, are you seeing in general, a lot of cash flow kind of be absorbed right now, just from interest costs and expenses and other things where it is kind of a funny time to invest, right.

Where it’s like all the things that were cash flowing are not cash flowing anymore for some cases. Because of, you know, interest rates and other expenses. Are you seeing that as well? Or that’s kind of pretty common.

Andrew Cushman: It’s common for anyone who didn’t hedge against interest rates going up. So yeah, you’re, you mean there are properties where the actual fundamental operations of the property are just fine.

The property is not distressed, but it has, it’s stressed because of what you said. They have a floating rate loan. It wasn’t capped. And so. You know, their interest rate payment might have gone from 70, 000 a month to 170, 000 a month, and the property doesn’t produce enough cash flow to pay for that.

And that is what is going to lead towards opportunity in 2024 and 2025 is those operators are going to have to sell. Because, you know, the values come down to the LTV is not there. They can’t refinance. There’s not enough cash flow to, you know, there was there was enough cash flow to support a loan at 3, 4, maybe 5%, but not 6, 7 or 8.

And so that those properties have to be sold in the key nuance is. As an investor, that is only a problem for the people who currently own properties. It’s not a problem if you’re looking to buy properties because you’re going to buy at the right price that matches the interest rate that you’re going to get on your loan.

It’s only a problem for the guy who bought two years ago, counted on a 3 percent interest rate, didn’t lock it in, and now it’s or eight or nine. So that’s another thing too. All these scary headlines. It’s not a problem for the new investor. It’s only a problem for the guys who are already in and if they didn’t plan for it, or they don’t have a way to solve it.

So, and again, and if you’re, if you’re an LP, who’s listening to this saying, yeah, well, it’s a problem for me because I’ve lost money in three syndications. That is true. And I’m not, we’re not minimizing that. What we’re saying is, is going forward, it’s. Interest rates aren’t an issue because you’re, you’re going to be buying and investing with that already factored in.

Bronson Hill: Yeah. Yeah. It is interesting when you know, it’s, you know, it’s, you have to kind of look at it two ways, right? One is an owner or somebody potentially selling or what, you know, you also look at it as a buyer, but well, if it’s, you know, is it a time to double down? And this is the part to think of psychology where most people are not good investors because they, when things are going really well, right?

They should be taking chips off the table and thinking about, okay, what happens when this turns and not necessarily selling, but just what does that mean? And then when things are not going well, or things have crashed, it’s probably a time to double down. And it’s just like, if you have a stock and it’s gone to half the price, it’s not time to sell.

It’s time to really look at the fundamentals and think, is this a great investment and double down on it? But how much do you think the wealth effect has affected where people have seen losses in other areas? And they kind of, you know, maybe went from feeling. Kind of wealthy, you know, there’s all the money floating around, you know, the PPP and all this, just so much money.

And there still is money. I think a lot of it, I mean, you mentioned, I think a lot of it’s institutional and larger, you know, larger groups, but I know a lot of kind of upper middle class people are kind of like, they’re not feeling as wealthy as they were a couple of years ago. So are you, are you seeing a kind of wealth effect in some of your deals where it’s like, Hey, we were raising, you know, several million now we’re raising a million, it’s changed a little bit as far as being able to raise for some of these deals right now.

Andrew Cushman: We have seen that. However. It is still far, far easier to raise both debt and equity now than it was in 2010, 11 and 12. I mean, it was nowhere to be found back then. Now everyone is like, Oh, Hey, there’s a big opportunity coming. We’re ready. And now, but with that said, it is I’d say a little harder to raise equity these days, but.

Candidly, the right deal that’s being bought at a good basis and has a good business model and has well mitigated, well mitigated risk, those deals are still getting funded pretty well. And here’s why the money raising capability or ability of sponsors of all kinds, the last few years, that was not normal.

It really should not be that easy. I mean, just people were rushing to throw money into all kinds of stuff. I mean, remember I remember hearing stories of people paying, you know, five figures for virtual real estate in the, in, in the metaverse,

Bronson Hill: the metaverse, you know, and

Andrew Cushman: just, just think about the NFT craze and how much people paid for some of that.

I mean, that’s a sign that there’s just too much money out there. So yes, relative to that equity is definitely harder to raise today. However, I would say what we’re seeing now is a reversion to the healthy mean, meaning people do have money to invest. People still are looking to invest, but rather than just like, okay, I got to get, I got to get in before everyone else does.

There’s more of a healthy sense of pause and caution. And I think that is actually good for the long term health of the market. And for investors that. There’s a little bit more caution. It’s a little bit harder. So yes, it is harder now. But again, I, in my experience of doing this, it’s actually not hard. It’s just back to normal.

Bronson Hill: Yeah. And that’s why they were experienced really helps you because you’ve been through. You know, multiple areas here where this is, it’s look different. And it actually is easier compared to other things. I think syndication just in general, some of the laws changed. I think it was for the 506B or 506C, they changed some of the laws where it just be much more accessible, right?

About that time, right? About 2011, 2012, somewhere in there. And so it’s just this huge flood of people into it. I still think that 95 percent of people that should be investing in syndications haven’t really heard of it. And so what do you think are some other you know, you love, you’re a multifamily guy.

Are there other assets you like inside of real estate or even outside and other alternative assets that you personally are like, Oh, this is really interesting that you’re looking at?

Andrew Cushman: Yeah. So I’ve chosen to focus in terms of our business. Focus solely on very narrow specialty. So B to a minus class garden style, multifamily in the Southeast United States, right?

Like that’s a very specific thing. And like, you know, like Warren Buffett said, put all your eggs in one basket and then watch that basket very, very closely, however, that doesn’t mean that that’s the only good investment out there I’m not an expert in these other, you know, other classes of, of investment, you know, to me, Industrial is probably, you know, seems like there’s a lot of opportunity there.

Self storage is a bit overbuilt right now, but long term, probably a pretty good investment. I know a lot of people that we’ve seen are just crushing it in car washes, of all things. Yeah,

Bronson Hill: we’ve done some car wash stuff as well. Yeah, it’s, it’s a really, it’s the private equity rollup, right? You’re, you’re building more car washes and you’re trying to sell it at a higher multiple in the future to private equity.

Andrew Cushman: Yeah. Laundromats it seems like laundromats are incredibly well performing assets you know, office. I would make sure you really know what you’re doing before you go into that. Because that is what’s happening in office is not your typical economic cycle. That is a structural shift and that’s a very different thing.

And so be, I’d, you know, be really careful with that. You know, even, you know, Bitcoin and some of these alternative assets, I do think there’s a place in a diversified portfolio for all of these things. And, you know, if, if I was going to be. retired and doing nothing but managing my own past, you know, passive investments that I placed money with other people.

I would place the bulk of it with multifamily because number one, I understand that best. And number two, AI and all these other things are not going to ever change the fact that people need to live somewhere physically and have a roof over their head. Right. So I know I’m not going to be put out of business by some new tech that comes along, but I would, you know, find some great operators with, you know, car washes or, and diversify a little bit.

So yeah, I think there’s, I mean, there’s definitely other opportunity out there.

Bronson Hill: Yeah, that’s great. No, I think it’s, I think it’s good. It’s, it’s, it’s great to pay attention to what’s happening. Cause there’s always opportunities in every market. There’s always things to to look at. What are some other, I know you do a lot of research, but what are some other unusual things you’re seeing kind of coming back to multifamily just of, of the markets that you know, these are things that most people aren’t aware of that can potentially help or kind of give it a perspective as far as investing.

Andrew Cushman: I’ll give you an interesting one. This was just a couple of weeks ago. It is almost Bronson. It’s almost, I think the last time we met in person, you know, this would have been like a rumor. And two years ago, it would have been unfathomable to even consider this. We just saw a lender approved short sale on a multi family portfolio, meaning the price that the properties are being sold at is lower than the balance of the debt.

The seller said, all right, we’re going to go with this buyer. Then they had to go to the lender to get the lender’s approval. And the lender actually said, no, we were going to pick a different buyer. And so the lender chose the buyer and approved a short sale. And so that’s good. That’s that’s going, that transaction is going through.

I mean, again, two years ago in the height of the multifamily, in particular, multifamily craze, the idea of wait, you’re going to have to get your bank’s approval to do a short sale on a multifamily, like. Yeah, that was crazy. We just saw that happen. So that’s again, but that’s part of why the market is not, in my opinion, likely to crash or continue down.

Lenders still remember 2008 through 10, 2012. They figured out, oh, we don’t want to take these things back. Right. So they’re going to approve short sales. They’re approving another one. We’ve been seeing a lot in the last like three to six months even of lenders extending loans and waiving covenants to do so basically what in meaning that, you know, A lot of owners and syndicators in particular take these loan extensions for granted.

Like, Oh yeah, I’ll just extend the loan. There’s like 87 rules in hurdles. You have to clear to be able to extend that loan. And 99 percent of properties these days don’t meet those requirements. So typically the lender would be like, you know, tough cookies, you, you know, pay me off. Instead, the majority, a significant percentage of them are saying, you know what, don’t worry about it.

We know you don’t call it. We’ll just extend it anyway. Greg, they don’t want to take it back. They don’t want to make the situation worse. And so they’re extending, in some cases it’s extend and pretend, but in other cases, it’s like, you know, if they say, Hey, look, we got a strong operator, properties in a good location, you know, a few years from now, this is probably going to be fine.

You know what, let’s just extend this loan and hope everything works out right now. Hope is not a business plan, but you know, if it’s coupled with some research and data and, and, you know, in, in reality, then that can work. And so again, that is going to help differentiate this from last time. Is the lenders learn to not just foreclose and take it all back.

Bronson Hill: Yeah, that’s, it’s, that’s a big deal. I mean, it’s really, you know, I think in every market there’s always lessons and it kind of what you’re saying to reminds me of the contrarian being a contrarian, being willing to look at things differently, being willing to go against the crowd. Even there’s some spiritual teachings on this.

Even Jesus says like, you know, why does the road to destruction and many, you know, go that path, but few, and it’s kind of like, It’s the most unnatural thing to like, when everyone’s getting into something to be like, you know, maybe it’s time to get out of this, you know, or maybe it’s time to like, restructure, take some shifts, you know, and to do that a little differently.

Yeah, I think that’s, I think that’s really good. Well, Andrew, I, I, I think we could talk about this for a really long time. And I always, I appreciate you. Cause I feel like you have a great perspective when it comes to just your experience as well as just really guiding people to understand what’s happening today.

Cause a lot of people are like, I don’t know what to do. So just want to honor you for that. Appreciate you all the value you’re bringing. I encourage people to check out your your bigger pockets episodes as well that you’re doing. You have a lot of media stuff that you’re involved with, but how can people reach out to you, connect with you, follow what you’re doing and be a part of the deals that you guys are doing as well.

Andrew Cushman: Two main ways. If if you’re interested in potentially being part of the deals or at least seeing them, just go to, just, you can Google vantage point acquisitions, Andrew Cushman everything comes up and just go to the website is bpacq. com. And there’s a tab on there. Just you can fill out a short.

Short form, and then that’ll set it, send you a link to schedule a call, either myself or Anthony that’s to have a phone call with us and potentially get on the investor list. If you just want to kind of connect and have social media conversations. I have decided I’m not doing any social media except LinkedIn.

So I do consistently post and comment on LinkedIn. And if you comment on one of my posts, that actually is me responding to you. So if you, if you want to, you know, have a conversation about a topic that’s probably the best way to do it is just connect with me on LinkedIn.

Bronson Hill: Awesome. Maybe I’ll, I’ll start writing comments on your LinkedIn and I can start chatting with you. That’d be great. That’d be awesome. Awesome, Andrew. Well, appreciate you, brother. Thanks for being here. I look forward to connecting again soon and appreciate all the value you are adding to this conversation.

Andrew Cushman: All right. Good talking to you, Bronson. Thanks.

Bronson Hill: Okay. So, I love this interview with Andrew. Again, super positive guy, really trying to help folks and on their way.

And he gets into a lot of data. It gets kind of in the weeds on some stuff, which is important, right? It’s important to make sure that you understand that you have a plan and the plan that you want to go for. So you know, a lot of people, it’s just simply, they want to buy, or, you know, if multifamily has had a loss, well, the multifamily must be bad.

I think it’s a great time for multifamily. It has gotten harder to raise money for multifamily deals. We’re seeing fewer of them available. He said 25 percent of the volume we saw a couple of years ago, but I think it’s a great time to keep looking and be looking at these opportunities because in the moment, and I’ve said this for a long time, once rates start to not even just go up, but start to come down a little bit we’re going to start to see a lot of this money, the 6 trillion, on the sidelines start to make its way back, right? Not right away, but over time it’s going to happen. And so just be ready for that. If you haven’t joined our investor club, you can check that out at You also check out my book right here, Fire Yourself, available on Amazon, and you get the free first couple of chapters at my website, if you’d like to check it out. And thanks for taking the time to educate yourself.

Look forward to seeing you on the next episode of The Mailbox Money Show!

Outro: You’ve been listening to the Mailbox Money podcast. For more free resources, articles, and videos, go to There., you can download your copy of the special report, the single best investment strategy during and after a pandemic.  None of the information shared here is an offer to buy a specific investment.

And this is for educational purposes only. Consult your financial, legal, and tax professionals, and use your own common sense before making any investment decisions. Thanks for joining us and be sure to tune next time for more Mailbox Money.

Bronson Hill

Bronson used to work as a consultant for a medical device company but switched to investing in apartment buildings to make his money work for him. He started with a single rental property that made good money and, after some advice from a family member, moved into bigger real estate projects. Now, he's all about helping others get into this kind of investment to earn money without having to work all the time. When he's not dealing with investments, Bronson loves to travel, write songs, stay active, and help fight modern slavery through his work with Dressember. He believes in working smarter, not harder, and wants to share how that's possible with everyone.

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