Join Bronson Hill on the Mailbox Money Show for a replay of this high-octane webinar, “Don’t Miss the Precious Metals Boom,” packed with insider strategies to capitalize on surging gold and silver prices amid global uncertainty. As host of monthly investor forums and author of Fire Yourself, Bronson moderates a powerhouse panel dissecting the rally’s drivers—from central bank hoarding and Fed rate cuts to dollar weaponization and industrial demand—while weighing physical metals against crypto’s volatility.
Featuring:
Brien Lundin, veteran editor of The Gold Newsletter (55+ years strong) and producer of the world’s oldest investment conference, the New Orleans Investment Conference.
Russell Gray, founder of Raising Capitalists Foundation and advocate for sound money, sharing arbitrage tactics like metals-backed equity lines.
David Morgan, publisher of The Morgan Report, delivering contrarian takes on market tops, silver acceleration, and deflation risks.
Dana Samuelson, precious metals expert at American Gold Exchange, breaking down dealer insights on ratios, IRAs, and 10-20% upside potential.
Whether stacking bullion or blending with equities, don’t sleep on this boom—tune in for actionable intel to hedge inflation and seize the next leg up.
Bronson Hill: Welcome, we’ve got a full house here.
I’m very excited for today. If we have not met yet today, or have not met so far, as you’re coming in, I want to get the chat box going. My name is Bronson Hill.
I will give you a little more intro about myself, our panelists. You should be able to chat with anybody in here. So if you just drop in the chat, we’ll make sure the chat box is working there.
Just go ahead and drop in where you’re coming from. We are going to have a great discussion tonight. We’re going to have some amazing, some of my best friends in the world are here talking about metals, talking about not missing the Precious Metals Boom.
So let’s have you drop in the chat. I want to see them make sure the chat box is working here. It’s kind of our sign we can get started.
So just drop in where you’re coming from. I’m going to put where I’m at here in Pasadena, California. There we go.
We got Pennsylvania.
Awesome. Great to see you. Thanks for being here. And we’ll just get started here in just a minute. Chet, thanks for coming in there.
We got John. Awesome. Welcome, John from Scotland. I love it.
We’ve all around the world. We’ve got New Orleans.
Love it. Brian. Christina’s here as well.
Love it. Christina, I know you’re in Indianapolis. Cynthia, whole crew of friends and family.
Denise is here. Great. Love it, Fidel. Love it. Kevin, OK, we got a whole crew of people. So awesome.
OK, I’m going to go ahead and start. We’ll go ahead and welcome our experts up here in a minute. We’re going to have, again, you can chat with anybody who’s in the room here.
So you should be able, once they’ve put stuff in the chat, you should be able to see them and chat with them as well. So feel free to reach out, get the discussion. We will take questions at the end.
So we can certainly jump in questions before then, but we will definitely take questions at the end. This is the Don’t Miss The Precious Metals Boom. If you’ve been watching the price of gold, the price of silver.
If you’ve been an investor, it’s a great time, right, to be an investor of gold and silver right now because of kind of what’s happening.
So I’m going to go ahead and introduce myself. My name is Bronson Hill.
We do events like this every month to help educate in the community. I’m the author of this book behind me called Fire Yourself Replace Your Working Income with Passive Income in Three Years or less.
I’m also a big metals investor. We do oil and gas deals. We’re doing private business deals and real estate deals that people get cash flow appreciation and tax benefits.
We’d love to tell you more about that if you are interested. I’m going to go ahead and introduce our experts here and welcome them up. So I’m going to welcome them up here to move them to the webinar.
I’m going to give an introduction to each one and we’re going to jump right in. So I hope you’re as excited as I am and we’re going to get going. Let’s see if we have a little bit of echo there.
OK, move to webinar. I think I got to remove to webinar. Awesome.
Cool. A few of my friends here. Really excited to have you.
We have Dana Samuelson from American Gold Exchange. Precious metals dealer. Welcome, Dana.
Dana Samuelson: Hi, Bronson. Thanks for having me. It’s great to be here with you and with everyone else.
Bronson Hill: Good to have you, man. And you’re on the road there as well. So thanks for coming in from the road there.
We’ve got Brien Lundin who’s the author of the Gold Newsletter and the host of the New Orleans Investment Conference.
Welcome, Brian.
Brien Lundin: Thanks so much, Bronson. Great to be here.
Bronson Hill: It’s great to have you, man. Thanks so much. Great to see you as well.
David Morgan, The Morgan Report. Good to see you, David.
David Morgan: Hello, everyone. Thank you, Bronson.
Bronson Hill: Awesome. Welcome. I got my good friend Russell Gray here from the Raising Capitalists Foundation. And the Mainstream Capitalist Group.
Russell Gray: All right, here I am. Happy to be here with you guys, as always.
Bronson Hill: Awesome. I love it. Okay, guys, let’s jump in. Let’s get right into it.
We’re seeing gold at record high prices. We’re seeing silver making a huge rebound and coming to a very strong level. Let’s talk specifically about gold.
Do you see that? Is this rally? Is it real or do you think we’re kind of topping out?
What are you guys seeing kind of from here out? Let’s start with Russ on this. I want to kind of work our way around.
Russell Gray: Well, you pick the guy who looks at life a little bit differently when it comes to gold. I don’t look at gold as a trading vehicle. So to me, it’s not about buy low, sell high and end up with a pile of fiat currency in your bank account, God forbid.
To me, I think really the role of gold on your balance sheet is a liquid store of wealth like equity. And so, when I look at gold, I look at if the currency is strong relative to gold at any point in time, the price would be down. You’d have the opportunity to add to your position and, how much savings do you want? All of it, right?
So I think the underlying trend that is causing gold to move based on its dollar price is a long term trend called terminal decline of the U.S. dollar. Been going on since 1913, with a little exception coming into the Great Depression when they tried to get back onto the gold standard and failed. And since then, and just like four days ago, guys, what the 54th anniversary of Nixon taking us off the gold standard.
You look at any chart after August 15, 1971, it’s just pure printing, pure debt, pure inflation. It’s pretty clear that if you want to have liquid savings that’s insulated from inflation, gold is where you want to be. And the more people that wake up to that, the more purchase pressure there is.
And that’s happening at the institutional level and it’s happening at the main street level. So I would say that it’s got the tailwinds right now. If you’re looking at the long term trend and I don’t really care what it does in the short term, when it dips, that’s a great time to trade dollars for real money, my opinion.
Bronson Hill: Thank you, Russ. Appreciate that. We are also recording this.
This will be sent out at the end. A lot of questions come. Hey, is this being recorded?
It is being recorded. It’ll be sent out to you later. Brien Lundin, what are you?
I know you write the gold newsletter, but what is your opinion of gold and where we’re at right now? And I know there’s times to buy and times to hold. Just talk to us a little bit about what you’re seeing in the gold price right now.
Brien Lundin: Yeah, first off, completely agree if everything Russ says, gold is insurance and you’re insuring against something you know is going to happen. That your currency, your cash, your dollars or whatever your own currency is are going to depreciate. They’re going to lose their purchasing power. So that’s why you can you can preserve that purchasing power by buying gold.
Now, as far as this current bull market, it would be a catch up phase for gold where it’s accelerating vis-a-vis the dollar in other currencies and an accelerated rate. That’s largely due to the repercussions of four and a half decades of ever greater debt, ever easier money. And we’re kind of in the end game of that whole process, I believe.
Now, shorter term, I think we may may have some resolution to the Russia Ukraine issue and the speculators are going to look at that as some reason to jump on gold. If there is a resolution, they’re going to say this risk is removed. That’s not a real reason why gold has been rising.
So I think that would be a false signal. Traders will take advantage of it. Longer term or slightly longer term, I think the Fed is going to cut rates in September.
Investors and speculators are starting to watch the Fed again as their primary motivator. So shifting to an easier money policy will be bullish for gold going forward. And if we do get a resolution between Russia and Ukraine, I think that’s going to demonstrate to the world a good deal of strength, American strength.
And I think that will actually prompt the central banks to buy more gold. They’ve been the primary driver over the last 18 months or so behind this gold bull market. Because they want to gain some insurance, some insulation against dollar weaponization, potential dollar weaponization. So anything that strengthens the US will encourage more gold buying by central banks around the world. More diversification out of the dollar so they can’t have that weakness, that chink in their armor.
Bronson Hill: Love it. I’m going to launch a poll here to everyone. So I believe everybody should be able, even our panelists, hopefully you can actually I might have to go back.
Let me go back and fix this here. I think you should be able to vote. If not, let me know.
But what’s the reason for gold’s breakout? So go ahead and fill that out for our audience.
We’ll kind of come back in a minute here.
Dana, what do you think? Gold price where we’re at now or we’re headed. I know you’re kind of seeing how people are buying and kind of how they’re looking at it.
Give us your insight as a dealer there.
Dana Samuelson: Well, Brien touched on the bigger trends, which are debt, weaker dollar. Also, central bank gold buying has really been one of the key underpinners of the whole market. The last couple of years, they’re one of the main drivers because central banks are the most conservative bankers in the world.
They were net sellers of gold from 2000. I’m sorry, from 1950 to 2010, they became net buyers following the great financial crisis, about 500 tons a year. And in the last three years, they bought a thousand tons or more of gold.
So they’re really propping up the market. Tariff turmoil put about four hundred dollars on the gold price this year. I’ve been watching gold trade almost all day, every day for the last 30 years.
I don’t think its resolution of the conflict will have that big of an impact on the gold price in the short term. When we’ve seen gold into a 32 to 3400 trading range right now, it’s not giving up much when it’s weak. And Brien is right.
If the Fed goes into a rate cutting cycle, we’re liable to see gold get a maybe a 10, 15, 20 percent boost in dollar terms. I just released a video analyzing what gold does when the Fed cuts rates in the last three times they’ve cut rates in a normal economic environment, not including the chaos of the great financial crisis or covid. Gold’s jumped 10, 15, 20 percent in a normal Fed rate cutting cycle.
And I think we’re on the cusp of that with the horrible jobs report that we got in July. If we get another one, they will lower rates in September or October. If we get a decent jobs report, they may hold off a little bit.
That’s the way I see it. But the trend is your friend and gold has been rising and it’s not giving up much when it’s weak right now. And I do think we’re destined to see it go another 10, 20 percent higher, maybe starting as early as a month from now.
Bronson Hill: It’s amazing how gold has been a monetary asset, of course, when it comes to the dollar being the dollar, the gold standard and everything for many years. But 5000, your history of this and just the link between rates. And there’s so many connections here.
David Morgan, give us your thoughts on gold specifically. And you talk about silver as well. So feel free to touch on that.
David Morgan: Well, I was at the New Orleans Conference for the 50th anniversary and Brien opened the meeting and I was there at the conference. And right behind him was Avi Gilbert. And Avi praised Brian and the conference, which I will as well.
And talked about where he saw gold going. It was very interesting. He said he saw gold topping at 3500 the ounce and didn’t get to ask him a question about silver.
So I started thinking about that. And I put in my report in April that I saw gold trading in a range between thirty two hundred and thirty five hundred. And so far, that’s been accurate.
How would you top out at that level? And that’s the big question. I don’t have time to go into it a whole wrote a whole report on it.
But if we have a debt liquidation event where we see a lot of deflation in the market rather than the continuing inflation, everyone talks about all the time, which is valid. We could see a re-pricing. So it’s really not the price we want to focus on.
It’s the value. So if a thirty five hundred dollar price of gold is valued at X cars today, but thirty five hundred dollar price gold is worth four X cars in a year and a half, then it has increased in its value where it’s its relative value compared to other commodities or goods and services. So that’s part of my thinking.
The other part is what I’ve talked about for years and that is in silver. Ninety percent of the move comes in the last 10 percent of the time. That’s just an overall view of most markets when they get the acceleration phase, they really, really go and they accelerate.
It happened in real estate. It happened in the stock market. The first boom, the tech wreck.
So it’s pretty well known. Now, the ninety ten is just nomenclature. But what we’ve actually seen in the gold market is that gold broke that two thousand dollar level, which was hard to get to and it consolidated there for quite some time in March twenty twenty four.
Now we’re approaching September twenty twenty five. So if you look at metrics, that’s about not quite 60 percent of the move, certainly a lot less than 10 percent of the time because we started the bull market in gold in the year two thousand. So I’m not saying this is the top, but I’m looking at it very, very carefully because that was a unique point that he made.
And again, the only way I would go along with it is if we see a basic deflationary situation where, let’s say, we can’t sell our debt, which we’re having trouble doing. And again, I don’t want to go on and on, Bronson, but I’m not I’m not saying that it is the top. I do think personally and my work, I would say, I think we will get above that level.
But until we do, we don’t follow what I’m saying. And the longer it goes sideways or the longer that consolidates there, the more I will be studying why and what the rest of the economy is. Remember, it’s a relative thing.
What will it actually purchase? It’s not so much the dollar price. That’s what’s really difficult for people to get out of their head because the bigger number means more purchasing power.
But remember, one of my favorite posters is starving billionaire with the guy from Zimbabwe with a hundred trillion dollar bills on a piece of cardboard and he can’t feed himself.
Bronson Hill: Yeah, that’s that’s really that’s a great, great view, David. Thank you. I want to share this webinar poll.
I think I share the results here. The reason most people think here, 41 percent central bank buying de-dollarization, some fear of recession and the falling real interest rate. So thanks, everybody, for answering that.
Wanted to shift gears for a minute. And now I think for all of us here, whether you are tuning in and you are a you own ogles of gold and silver and you stack both incredibly or you’re brand new to this, you know, I don’t even know. I don’t know any metals. I’m just thinking to kind of get into it.
This camp is actually, I would say, for my perception, at least from my age and younger, I’m 44, that the digitalization of money. So the crypto, the Bitcoin, all the stuff that’s out there is is I’m going to say it’s taking over.
There’s a huge push for digitalized assets and digitalized money and digitalized all this stuff. I’m in the camp. I love real physical things like a lot of us do.
So do you guys think personally, is it either or is there a place that people will come back and say, oh, we’ve got to have something real. Or do you think it’s kind of like we’re going to see asset prices rise in both in crypto digital assets as well as gold and silver? Let me hear some kind of philosophical, something you just jump in if they’re ready.
David Morgan: Well, I at the website, the morning port dot com, go to the blog, type into the search engine, crypto conspiracy. I did 30 interviews on the big picture of the crypto market, and I think partly it’s been a diversion from the gold and silver markets. And secondly, I think there is a lot of hype around it, especially around Bitcoin. Because if you analyze Bitcoin like I would analyze a mining company, you’ll find out that all the major miners in Bitcoin, Marathon, Riot are losing money.
And the stock price, if you look at the major miners, is going down, down, down toward the burning ring of fire. And yet the price of Bitcoin keeps going up. That doesn’t make sense.
That’d be like mining gold for 5000 the ounce and it sells for 3300 the ounce sooner or later they’re not going to match.
So that’s on Bitcoin alone.
As far as are we going into a digital payment area? Absolutely. That’s the big push.
That’s the major trend. I don’t think that’s going away. And now that we have Bitcoin being basically the antithesis of what it started as, which was peer to peer, no bank, no intervention.
Anonymous is centralized owned by the whales and controlled by the whales. So I’ll leave it there because I’m pretty wound up on it. And I think, again, that there was a lot of money that could have gone into preserving people’s wealth and protecting their wealth into a digital age that’s really being pushed on us and not a free market decision.
Bronson Hill: Thank you. Someone else jump in here.
Russell Gray: I’ll just really quickly say this. I think that I’ve got what I call the circle of safety and it is gold, Bitcoin and treasuries. Now, I’m not saying I think all of those things are safe.
I have my preference and you might guess what it is. But I think the mentality is, is what do people go to when there’s trouble? And I think that you have to watch because people aren’t necessarily rational.
And, I’m an older guy in Bronson. You put together that fabulous debate where Dana and I, the two old guys, went up again to Mark Moss and Bridger Pennington, the young guys kind of in the Bitcoin. And of course, I famously sat between Larry Laparte and Peter Schiff on New Orleans investment conference when Larry nearly climbed over me to get up here.
And so this is a really polarizing thing. And at the end of the day, what gives the fiat currency, which isn’t really worth the paper it’s printed on in terms of intrinsic value, clearly. Its value is legal tender laws. The fact that there’s debt issued in it, the fact that there is taxes owed in it and the fact that the government says that you must accept this currency for the payment of debt.
And so that puts that creates demand and demand is where price comes from. Right. If people are going to bid whatever bid their labor, their goods and services, if they’re going to bid on whatever the currency is, it’s going to give the currency value.
You just have to understand that basic concept. When you start seeing pro Bitcoin secretary, secretary of the Treasury’s, when you start seeing pro Bitcoin Fed chairs being interviewed, when you start seeing the federal government talking about establishing Bitcoin reserves and sovereign people creating reserves, you have to understand that something that is absolutely intrinsically worth nothing.
If it is given that kind of support to be valued, be useful for something, it’s going to catch a bid. And I think one of the things the old guys struggle with, and I’m one of them, is how in the world can that be real? And, you know, when I was on that panel with Peter, what I said to try to calm him down, just because I felt like we needed a little intervention there, is I just asked him if intellectual property was an asset.
And he stopped and he goes, well, yeah, I said, OK, so it doesn’t have to be physical. It doesn’t have to be tangible. An idea actually can have value.
And when you make that idea, that string of code, an asset, a tier asset, a reserve asset, a means of paying taxes, then all of a sudden it’s going to catch a bid. So I think it would be naive to look at the popularity of the thing on Main Street and the trend with people that have the levers of power, whether they’re benevolent in their wielding of that power or nefarious, which, you know, I’m not a big fan of anything that looks like a central big digital currency that can be tracked, controlled by a central planner. I don’t like it.
I think part of the appeal of Bitcoin is a lot of people think it can’t be. But I think that because it’s that way that people are circling who want to control it are moving in a place to do it. So there’s two questions.
Do we want it? And is it going to be worth something? I think it’s probably got more tailwinds at it right now than it has headwinds.
It doesn’t mean that one day it won’t crash to zero, but that’s just my opinion. But I just think you have to you have to balance out your perspective. So I think gold treasuries and Bitcoin and I think there’s things the United States is doing right now to make the dollar more appealing.
And they’re certainly making attempts to defend it around the world as they always have. I mean, Trump was very clear after he got inaugurated, I mean, after he got elected way before he got inaugurated, he put the bricks on notice. He goes, look, if you guys come after the dollar hundred percent tariffs day one, you’re going to be completely locked out of the U.S. economy.
I’m not going to tolerate an attack on the dollar. I think if we’ll see what happens at the midterms, but if that mentality continues to be part of our trade policy, our foreign policy, then I think that, you know, despite their flaws, treasuries, I think have actually been catching a bit. I heard that foreign holders of treasuries were actually up in this last cycle from, I think, last month or a year ago.
I don’t remember what the period was. So I think sometimes we get in in a loop in our head and we look at things a certain way. And I just think it’s important to listen to these opposing points of view, because sometimes things won’t make any sense to us because we’re stuck in a paradigm.
And again, I’m not pimping Bitcoin, trust me. But I just think that we need to, you know, I’m reading Larry’s book, The Big Print. I read safe Samba Dean Amis’s book, The Bitcoin Standard, both excellent reads.
I think you have to try to understand the mentality that’s behind Bitcoin and just, you know, pay attention to it. I’ll just leave it at that.
Bronson Hill: I think that’s great. We did have that panel a while ago, Russ, where it was you and Dana versus the Bitcoin guys with Mark Moss. And that was quite a bridge or Pennington.
So, even guys that are Bitcoin maximists will say, hey, it’s worth a million dollars for a Bitcoin or it’s worth zero. So there’s not a whole lot of room in between, I think, which is good. Brian Dana, who wants to jump in next year?
Brien Lundin: I’ll jump in real quick. I’d like to say that, you know, way long ago for Bitcoin, at least I was totally on board when it was explained to me with the libertarian ideals of Bitcoin. The independence of government management of money opting out of the system, et cetera. I did everything but buy Bitcoin at that time, so unfortunately.
But since then, those ideals, I think, have been co-opted by one single ideal. And that be that is number goes up and that’s it. It is right now a speculation that one day it will become what gold already is.
So it may, in my view, I think a very possible path is that this mania right now blows up and it crashes and then gets resurrected like a phoenix on the ashes and achieves its ultimate potential, whatever that might be. But right now it is a speculation. It is behaving as a speculation.
Even the maxis will recognize that to some degree. The thing that gives me hesitance about being completely anti Bitcoin is the fact that a number of my really good friends, really smart friends, who I know are good faith actors and have analyzed it, truly believe in its potential. Lynn Alden, Larry Lapard, James lavish, the list goes on.
So I respect their opinion, you know, I really do. And I think that it does have that potential. I cannot be confident that it is going to achieve that personally right now, because largely because it’s showing every you know, every evidence of a bubble right now.
And I can see that speculation going into it and I can see it being top heavy and I can see it causing not just a crash in Bitcoin, but a systemic crash. That is another one of those popping bubbles that have to be rescued by central banks, yada, yada, one more cycle. So I think that that could be the thing that creates that next next bubble bursting that creates the next rescue operation that then diminishes credibility and currencies.
So one more time.
Bronson Hill: Yeah, that’s a repeat. Dana, I know you are a physical metals dealer, but I know it’s hard to deal Bitcoin as a physical product because it doesn’t exist. But give us your take on this.
Dana Samuelson: Well, I do appreciate Bitcoin. It’s been adopted by mainstream Wall Street. It’s here to stay.
It’s highly correlated now to the NASDAQ. I think they both took a tumble today. I was in my car for a lot of today getting to this coin show.
What Bitcoin can do that virtually no other asset can do easily is move money across borders easily. But it’s highly volatile. It’s highly speculative.
It has taken some of gold’s thunder, but it’s here to stay and there’s a place for both. Now, central bank digital currency, that’s something completely different. I do appreciate the libertarian aspects of Bitcoin.
I do think a central bank digital currency is completely potentially evil and the control that it would offer the government. And how it might be deployed is a major concern for me, because we need a lot of independent banks in this country to have a viable financial system because banks actually create the currency, not the Fed. Through loaning money.
But if we have a centralized digital currency that eliminates the regional and the smaller banks and some of the bigger banks, then I think we have a very big problem in this country. That’s my two cents.
Bronson Hill: Thanks, Dana. I want to talk for a bit about we’re going to take some questions in a few minutes, but I want to talk for a minute about the gold and silver ratio. Currently, it is eighty eight point three, if my math is correct.
And I want to just publish a poll here. What’s your move? Golden silver ratio, historic levels.
You swap gold for silver. You hold both. You don’t follow the ratio.
Would love to kind of hear some thoughts on that. Who has some comments about the gold and silver ratio? Obviously, when you sell often, you’ll have a hit from taxes.
That’s an issue. So how do you manage this? Is it just, hey, silver is more attractive because the ratio you buy, do you sell, do you borrow?
What are some creative strategies around allocation that you’re using? And just for you, everyone wants to jump in. Or I can call on you.
Dana Samuelson: Well, I’ll jump in on that right now. The ratio is high, but it’s been higher. Two months ago is one hundred and four to one.
I think over one hundred gets people’s attention and has caused a bit of a shift out of gold into silver and also into platinum and palladium as well. When gold ran hot in April and we moved five hundred dollars an ounce higher primarily on Chinese tariff turmoil and then sold some of the money that wanted to be in the precious metal sector decided that silver and platinum and palladium might be a better play. So I think there was some movement out of gold and into silver, which brought the ratio back down.
Now, when it gets to extremes, there’s a good arbitrage there. But what I do is I like to see people have a hard position that is their insurance policy, whether it’s five percent of assets, 10 percent of assets or more. What you’re comfortable with when you want to add more.
I look at the gold to silver ratio as a measure of where you might find a little bit better value. And when the ratio is high like it is right now, I favor silver, especially since gold is at an all time high and silver is still 20 percent, 25 percent below its two previous highs. That’s how I look at it.
Brien Lundin: I would agree with Dana on that if you’re a trader, it’s not a really good timing tool. There’s not any specific point in the ratio where you can say this is the move. I think you should always have a position in both and it’s not so much, you know, where it is or where it’s headed.
And it’s falling right now, generally speaking. And silver has also when you take some more technical indicators and add that to your arsenal. You can see the silvers cleared thirty five dollars, which was very stiff upside resistance.
It looks like it’s broken into the clear relatively looks like forty dollars is just a matter of time. So silver is moving now and I would put a bit more focus on it. But I would recommend that people own both in physical form at least.
Bronson Hill: Thanks, Brian. David, why don’t you jump in next here?
David Morgan: Sure. So going back to my April report, I said, I think, you know, gold’s topped out here in a trading range, probably to the end of the summer at a minimum, perhaps the end of the year. And then using the ratios, it is good to swap or as Dana said, I agree, it’s a good time.
It’s going to add. What do you do? So I suggested to my readers that they could swap or for new money, platinum and silver.
Don’t add to your gold position right now. And I did that basis, the silver platinum ratio, because in terms of that ratio, platinum was about as cheap as it’s been in a very, very, very long time. So when I made that call, platinum was around the nine fifty level on this.
Anyone on this panel would know. Platinum’s going up about 50 percent from that point in time. So it was a pretty accurate or lucky call.
Now, we’ve been featuring platinum in the Morgan report for almost a year before I made the call. So we were kind of prepping the fundamental case for platinum. But it was going a thousand dollars was kind of the ceiling for the time.
So I think it’s useful. The last thing is like calling the top of the market. It’s useful there as well, though, it’s really tough.
But if we look at this major market and I’m not a big Elliott wave guy like Robbie, I mentioned earlier, however, I think when the last leg up and if we are, that’s the acceleration leg and it gives the most appreciation in the shortest amount of time. So, you know, based on what I think is going to happen, both metals are going to be much higher than I’m indicating right now. The best goal to silver ratio in this last twenty five years is thirty three to one.
So if things hold per the book, in other words, the tendency is for silver to outperform gold at the very end and the ratio to get, I’d say, back to that level, if not a little better than that. So I’m looking at that carefully, but I’m not addicted to it’s got to do this. I’ve got to do that.
The market knows more than any of us and I’m well aware of it. But at this level, I still think you’re better off buying silver. Platinum has made up a lot already.
And that’s for people that really are pretty sophisticated that know the markets, because unfortunately, there’s a big spread going in the platinum on the buy side. You pay a high premium and usually on the sell side, you’ve got to discount it some. Dana might want to speak to that.
I don’t know.
Bronson Hill: That’s I appreciate that. That’s it’s interesting to see the movements of both. I want to speak for a minute.
I just published the poll around most people are holding both gold and silver. And it’s hard to know kind of what to do. But as an investment, there’s a few things I love about physical metals.
Obviously, it’s an inflation hedge. The more currencies is created, it’s it hedges inflation. It stores value in itself versus, you know, Bitcoin.
How do you put value to that? And then the third thing, Ross, I want you to speak on this a little bit is liquidity. So it actually I can have, you know, large amounts of physical metal still stored at a third party vault and basically borrow against it like a HELOC.
And I’ve done this, I literally borrow for just so many days and it will actually allow me to learn this from you, Ross and Dana. But a lot of people that are new to this don’t realize that instead of just holding cash, I can actually hold it in metals. And basically, I’ve got I’ve kind of got all three.
I’ve got the inflation as the store of value. And I’ve got liquidity when I need it. So, Ross, can you talk about that?
Anything else you want to add to what kind of the conversation as well?
Russell Gray: Well, you know, again, I think of this a little bit differently because I don’t look at it as a trading vehicle and I don’t denominate anything in dollars. I try not to think about dollars. So I think David’s point earlier is well made is like, what will it actually buy?
And so to me, when you’re looking at a portfolio, you’re saying, what is the purpose of this thing in the portfolio? And I think Brian mentioned gold is insurance. And I called it gold is life insurance on fiat.
Now, you may or may not be able to it may not die on your watch. You may not be able to collect. But, you know, based on that terminal illness, you’re going to have some insulation.
So I think it’s how I think a lot of people look at it. But to me, I look at it as savings and equity. And so if you think about investors who are focused on building their net worth, the question is, how do you want to hold that net worth?
And I think that people who have their net worth in real estate that is very especially real estate, it’s a very dependent upon, you know, residential real estate, very dependent upon healthy credit markets that equity can disappear when credit markets flounder. The other thing is, is if it’s based on the income of the real estate, that’s very different proposition. Same thing with stocks.
If I own stocks just based on the idea that someday the company is going to come up with a big product or inflation is going to carry the thing higher, then I call the equity that is based on the greater fool, the next person to pay more for the same income or that the company is somehow going to miraculously grow into greater income. That’s very speculative. I wouldn’t consider that to be investing.
You’re just buying low, selling high, hoping that somebody is going to come along and pay you more and you have no control over it. Right. And so if you were to use gold as a trading vehicle, you’d be thinking the same way, but I don’t think of it that way.
I think of it as savings. I think of it as equity. If I had a choice between on my balance sheet, having my equity and my real estate or having equity in gold, I would rather have the equity in gold.
It’s easier to get a loan on it. It’s easier to sell it if I need to liquidate. Doesn’t really require a whole lot of maintenance compared to owning a piece of real estate.
And so I think it’s a better way. And you know, Bronson, I’ve taught many times in the past how to use arbitrage with debt to move equity from a piece of real estate over into gold. Something I worked with Dana on.
I got a presentation I did. Russell Grey dot com. You can see it.
It’s I did it at Vancouver Resource Investment Conference. It’s going to the watch button. You’ll see it.
Very simple. We work differently depending on what’s going on with the interest rate. So I look at it as equity on my balance sheet.
But I also look at it as savings. And so I could liquidate it, but there’s friction. There’s transaction costs.
So I really don’t want to liquidate it. But if I’m going to save, I’m going to have a position in dollars. Some are going to be in the bank, some are going to be outside the bank.
If I get too much cash in the bank, then I’m going to move it into gold and silver for long term storage. And so I convert that cash into equity on my balance sheet. If I get too much equity in my stocks, for example, not that I would, because I’m not a stock guy, but I might take some of that equity.
If I’m not owning those stocks for dividends, I’m just owning them for appreciation. When I get some appreciation, kind of like where we’re at today, I’d be thinking about moving some of that into something a little bit more real, a little bit more secure and a little bit more liquid. And to your point, if you have it set up or you’re using it like a I call it a G-lock, a gold equity line of credit, right?
Or a MELOC, a metals equity line of credit. Right. With, you know, I’m still I don’t know like Azaria, but the idea that you can have this equity on your balance sheet, but you can write a check against it when you need it.
And as long as you’re borrowing for a profitable purpose, then that can make a lot of sense. So to me, I think you have to look at how are you using it? How are you thinking about it on your balance sheet and your financials?
How are you using it as a tool? And then that tells you how much you should have. To me, I want to have as much as I can get.
It’s my favorite form of equity on my balance sheet.
Bronson Hill: Thanks, Ross. We’re going to take some questions here in a minute. Before we do that, I wanted to go around.
This is kind of my most interesting part of any panel. We do this every month on different topics from real estate to buying businesses to different all different things. And I want to hear from you each individually as experts.
Obviously, no specific advice, but what is something, you know, if you had 100K sitting around, you’re going to put it in metals. How would you diversify that? What would you buy?
Would you buy all gold? Would you buy all silver? Would you buy a mix or by palladium?
What would you buy if somebody gifted you 100K, you have to put it in metals. What would you put it in? Let’s start with Brian.
Brien Lundin: I would lean a little bit more towards silver right now. I would look at maybe 60, 70 silver to gold. I would not go into platinum and palladium, not because I don’t think they’re going up.
I really don’t have an opinion on that. I think platinum and palladium are more. Industrial metals right now, they don’t have that monetary cache that they used to have if they ever had that.
I think I’m more interested in the monetary metals, gold and silver. I am interested in base metals, but I think copper in that regard is my top play. But gold and silver, probably 60, 70 leaning toward silver.
Bronson Hill: Thank you. And some copper in there, too. Good mix of copper.
So save those pennies. Love it. Let’s go, David.
David Morgan: Yeah, I would agree with Brian if we’re doing metals only. Someone asked already about equities. I mean, you know, stock prices are supposed to be based on earnings.
So if I know a gold company is being priced at earning a profit of a $200 margin on gold because the cost of mining is $1,800 and they’re getting $200 margin, but we know right now it’s $3,300. We know their margin is like $1,500 higher than that. And I can buy that company and its earnings are going to be extremely much higher than it’s a gimme.
And that’s where the gold stocks are right now. It’s just very interesting being a, you know, mining analyst or equity analyst on the resource sector, not just gold and silver, but across the board and seeing the opportunities there. So I wanted to fit that in.
Someone already asked. But I always tell people, if you’re just getting started in the metals, please buy the real metal first. You don’t have to overload, but have something safe, secure for you and your family.
And then that point, you can move forward in other areas of that sector.
Bronson Hill: It’s a good, good, good word. Appreciate that. Let’s go to we’ll follow up.
We’ll have Dana at the end here. Russ, why don’t you share? What would you do?
100K metals? You got to put it somewhere.
Russell Gray: OK, so I’m a little bit different. I buy all gold and then I borrow against the gold and then I’d arbitrage. So if I could borrow the money, say I could borrow it at 5 percent, just hypothetically speaking, and I could take half the proceeds and then put it in a 10 percent note.
First position may be on a piece of property or some form of collateral that I would be interested in having. So if I took 100000, I’m just you couldn’t do this because the LTVs. But I just want to keep the math super simple.
So people get the concept right to put 100000 in gold. You borrow out 100000. Well, let’s say you borrow 50000.
OK, now I take the 50000, I take 25000 of it and I invested at 10 percent and I have my 25000 dollars now free and clear and I put that in silver. So now I have one hundred twenty five thousand dollars in metal.
Bronson Hill: So you have a little more metal now. That’s great. Right now, actually, the current rate, what I’m seeing, maybe Dana, you can tell me other groups, but around 10 percent is kind of the borrowing rate right now for this.
Are you seeing lower rates than that, Dana, on borrowing for metals? Oh, borrowing against your metals. Against a MELOC, according to Russ, that term.
Dana Samuelson: I don’t know what the rates are right now. Usually it’s prime plus a couple of points.
Bronson Hill: Yeah.
Dana Samuelson: So I would think, you know, you’ve got to be able to earn a good return if you’re going to borrow against your metals. You’ve got to get a higher return for it to work well for you. Right.
Makes sense.
Bronson Hill: Sure.
Dana Samuelson: Yeah.
Russell Gray: Right. And my point there is it works better when the interest rates are low. But if you build the position when the interest rates are high, then just wait for your opportunity.
But I’m just saying gold is a lot easier to borrow against in silver.
Bronson Hill: Yeah, for sure. That’s true. That’s true.
Awesome. Dana, give us your thoughts. Hunter K., what would you be doing with it?
You had to put it in metal somewhere.
Dana Samuelson: Real simple. Thirty thousand in gold, fifty thousand in silver, ten thousand each in platinum and palladium. And the reason is gold’s made a big run and it’s going sideways.
The silver chart, to me, looks like it’s really solid, really solid. It’s going to be knocking on the forty-dollar door pretty soon. If it can get over forty dollars, it probably will gain some momentum.
And I think it could pop pretty easily another five or seven or eight dollars just on that. Now, that’s speculative. But I do think the chart looks as solid as I’ve ever seen.
Platinum and palladium are completely undervalued relative to gold right now. Historically, going back twenty, thirty, forty years. So they’re a bit more of a speculation and you have to be patient and long term oriented, but they’re both in clear breakout mode.
And they’ve gone higher than they are today. They’ve made a correction. And right now they’re bouncing both of them off of major support.
Platinum at thirteen hundred and palladium at eleven hundred. If they hold those numbers, the rebound that they’re seeing right now, which has tested those numbers, should look for more gains.
Bronson Hill: Got it. Great. Thank you so much for that.
Appreciate that. Let’s take a couple of questions here. Looks like let’s see, questions here.
Curious here, the panelists impact on industrial trends, on AG price movements. So EV, battery, solar, et cetera. And how that is weighted versus mining production versus industrial demand.
So I think the question, the biggest knobs driving spot direction outside of the relationship of AU. So I think it is. I’m sorry, AG, AU is one of these is correct, is gold and the AG.
OK, I should know my acronyms and silver. OK, great.
Russell Gray: So let’s get you is actionable understanding. So I remember it.
Bronson Hill: I love it. I love it. OK, who would like to respond to the question there?
I’m going to understand the question.
Brien Lundin: If I could start on that. Yeah, I’ve always discounted for decades the industrial demand for silver because I’ve always been convinced that the vast majority of gold’s market value is for its monetary value that, you know, if it was just a pure industrial metal, it might be five dollars and an ounce or something like that. That said, the current industrial, the trajectory of industrial demand for silver is such that within five years, every bit of newly mined silver will go toward industrial demand.
So it’s more a matter to me that industrial demand is going to take supply. It’s not going to drive demand. I mean, it’s not going to drive price in itself.
I think there’ll be tremendous monetary demand for silver. And if industrial demand is going to take all of the newly mined silver off of the market, then that has a tremendous impact on the price dynamic. So I’m becoming converted to the importance of industrial demand for silver.
That said, sometimes it’s it’s a stick that the market uses to beat silver over the head with that if there’s any kind of an indication for a recession, economic slowdown, then the traders come in and knock silver because they look at the industrial demand for silver as being the real price drive, which I really don’t believe.
Bronson Hill: Great. Thank you for that. Question about precious metals inside a self-directed IRA.
Is that something that you commonly see? I know I’ve done it, but maybe someone maybe Dana, it could be you could just touch base on that. What are the kind of ways or accounts you can buy and how do people hold them hold metals inside of a an IRA account?
Dana Samuelson: Well, you can hold precious metals in an IRA, but you have to have a custodian to do so. If you take delivery yourself and hold the metal yourself, the IRS has already ruled that as a distribution on a couple that did that themselves. So you can hold precious metals in an IRA, but you need a custodian to hold the metal for you.
Bronson Hill: That’s great. Love it. OK, so we’re getting some of the London Bullion Market Association.
It’s a pretty technical question here. Let me grab this here. So what the panel saw is what the BRIC nations are doing.
We’re structuring the LBMA-COME. I had to look that up. So if you guys have comments, I’m sure you guys are familiar with this.
Maybe you’re not familiar with it.
Brien Lundin: Well, I think the whole BRICS thing is a bit overstated as far as the impact in the markets right now. I don’t think that the US dollar is going to lose its reserve currency status anytime soon. It’s not anything that we’re going to see.
But we have to recognize the trend. And if you look at the composition of central bank foreign reserves, the gold has surpassed the euro and is rising. And the dollar as a percentage of central bank reserves is falling.
So at some point, I think it’s going to be a bit in the future. Those lines will cross. And that’s the trend.
But the dollar is going to keep its reserve currency status. I don’t think that BRICS are going to be able to come up with a payment system, a currency, a basket of commodities or whatever that is going to be transactional and is going to replace the dollar.
David Morgan: I’ll add on to that, Bronson. I went through this recently on my Twitter feed. So that’s at Silverview 22.
Look for a interview I did with Eric Young, Y-E-U-N-G. But I agree with Brian. First of all, the rails that are used in the new system are spelled out in ISO 222.
That’s like the Internet. You know, everyone has email. You might have a different ISP, Internet Service Provider, but we all use the same HTML protocol.
That’s how this thing is set up. Yes, they are de-dollarizing. About 20 years ago was about 78% of all transactions globally were dollar based.
Now it’s 58%. So obviously, the amount of dollar usage is less. And the BRICS do peer to peer.
So I can buy whatever goods I want from Russia. In the Brazilian real or they can buy stuff from Brazil in rupals. So that’s certainly mitigating the use of the dollar.
But the big, big picture, I agree with Brian. I don’t think it’s going to supersede it. It’s a good way for us to barter trade between each other in the BRICS.
And I think it’s obviously having an impact, but not. I think it’s overblown as well. I don’t know what else to say.
As far as how does it affect the LBMA, which is the question. It’s doing that, but not because of a new currency or a new methodology. It’s because we’re getting a lower and lower supply and the last place you’re going to buy real metal from is the LBMA and the COMEX.
And because those two entities have seen a lot of metal come out of the LBMA and into the COMEX, but most of the COMEX is still ineligible, which is long-term holders. So the float in silver is actually much smaller than you would hear from the mainstream analysts, meaning that if that is the last place you can get it and it’s being taken out at a rather rapid rate relative to historical standards, something’s going on. And believe me, something is going on.
Bronson Hill: Before we wrap here, we’re actually getting kind of close to the end of our time. Wanted to just go just rapid fire. This is an interesting question.
And then we’ll get into kind of like how people can reach out and what the next steps are. What are the odds of the US ever returning to some sort of metal standard? Do you think it can happen or do you think it will never happen?
Let’s just kind of go rapid fire around the room. Let’s start. Russ, what do you think?
Russell Gray: So I think that this might be sound kind of radical, but I think if Trump got a super majority at the halfway point, which never, ever happens. But if he were to get super control of the Congress, I think he would make a run at getting rid of the Fed, getting rid of the IRS and instituting sound money. I think he’s shown in his choices.
He tried to get Judy Shelton on. She’s a sound money gal that I know I’m sure Brian likes. And and I think that Besant has hinted about that.
I think they’d like to do it. I think to get the Bitcoin crowd on board. They think that’s part of the reason why they’re kind of courting that group.
They are definitely going back to the BRICS question aggressively using diplomacy and not the military and economic maneuverings in order to bolster the dollar. But I don’t think they think the dollar isn’t salvageable long term in its current condition because we have too much debt. So they’re going to have to do something and that could involve gold.
And I think the world has already been making a move towards gold as a way of de-dollarizing not to get rid of the world’s reserve currency. It’s just they’re already on a gold standard. Have you heard Rickards talk about this?
He goes, you know, they can trade with each other in their currency and then they get a currency they don’t want. They just buy gold with it. And now they can convert it back.
It’s like home base when you played tag. It’s gold is the place you can go to pivot into any currency you want. So, you know, that’s that’s kind of I think that if the United States could pull it off, they would like to do it.
But it’s going to take a changing of the guard politically.
Bronson Hill: Let’s have a quick comment. Then we’re going to get in and we’ve got to kind of wrap here in a minute. I just want to say anything about that.
If not, we can kind of just do a quick wrap up. Awesome, guys. Wanted to do a quick share real quick.
We have something I know each of you guys have something you’re going to offer as well. What we do is we really put together rooms in person once a quarter. We’re doing something called the Wealth Forum.
Russ has been a guest speaker for us. We’re hoping to have all of our other guests here at these events as well. I’ll just share my screen here for a second.
Then I’ll put in the chat. We’re kind of making a special offer. This is you can see in the room here.
This is just from our Facebook. We’ll kind of have 30 people in a room talking about what we’re doing and investing from metals, from, you know, different investment deals, different operators, things like this. It is going to be a phenomenal event.
We just have some amazing testimonials and really how I’ve gotten ahead and 20 X minute worth is being in amazing room. Let’s quickly go around the room. Again, thank you so much to our panelists for being here.
Why don’t you just give people an idea of what you’re working on, what people can follow you with. Just take 30 seconds and just how people can kind of connect with you. Let’s start with Dana.
Dana Samuelson: So my company is American Gold Exchange. We’re a physical precious metals dealer, national mail order dealer, focused primarily in the most widely traded, competitively priced and easily for you sellable bullion items. Website is A-M-E-R-G-O-L-D dot com.
If you’d like to get a precious metals getting started guide that explains the basics, email info, I-N-F-O at Amergold dot com and just put getting started guide in the subject line. And I’m doing my regular gold market commentary on our YouTube channel now, which is American Gold Exchange. And I do a video once or twice a month talking about the markets.
I guess earlier I just did one on how falling federal funds rates have boosted gold in the past. Timely, factual, hopefully actionable information, but not financial advice.
Bronson Hill: Love it. You want to put that link in the chat there. Two people can get that.
Let’s go to Brian. How can people follow what you’re doing and get in touch?
Brien Lundin: Yeah, really two big things that I’m going and do. One is gold newsletter. It is the, as far as I can see, the longest running investment newsletter in the world.
We’re in our 55th year now that the day that Nixon cut the gold or close the gold window, August 15th, 1971, that we mark as the birth of gold newsletters. That’s how long we’ve been around. You can go to goldnewsletter.com, subscribe. It’s well worth it. And you can sign up for our free service and get a guide, the investor’s guide to gold and silver. Talks about everything we’ve talked about today and much more.
And we also have, I also produced the New Orleans investment conference in New Orleans every fall. This year it’s November 2nd to 5th. Go look at our speaker roster.
It is incredible. It is the, I think it is the best conference event as far as quality of speakers around. And it is actually the oldest investment intent in the world.
New Orleans conference.com. Come on down. Love it.
Bronson Hill: Awesome. Okay, thanks, Brian. Appreciate you being here.
Thanks so much, David. How can people track us? You got a link in the chat there too.
David Morgan: Yeah, the best way is go to the MorganReport.com and get our free service. We have a pay with as well. You can investigate.
And I’m almost done with the documentary on the stress, fear, and control money has over everyone’s lives. That’s at silversunrise.tv. I’ve looked at the final product, Rough Draft Number 2. A couple more tweaks to do.
Should have it out probably within a month’s time. And I will send it to you, everybody on this panel so you can have a look at your leisure. It’s an hour and a half long, but it goes to kind of the spiritual side of money and how much control and stress money puts on most people and how to overcome that.
Bronson Hill: Awesome. Thank you. Russ, how can people follow you and get in touch?
Russell Gray: I think three things real quick. First, I just put it up there. So Dana and I, for two, three years now at least, have been doing every month an investor mentoring club.
Two hours, we talk about currency bricks, macro for Main Street. Bronson, that’s one of the things I like to do is help people on Main Street unwind what’s going on in macro. So you get a free pass to that.
It’s a $47 a month membership, but you can get a free pass to that. Just send an email to RSVP at investormentoringclub.com. Getting ready to launch my new show, Main Street Capitalist.
And so if you want to find out when that’s going on and other things I’m involved in, you can just send an email to follow at russellgray.com. Then, of course, I will be at the New Orleans Investment Conference with Brian. And so if you want to come hang out and talk portfolio, real asset portfolio strategies, how gold fits in with real estate and debt and all the other kind of stuff, the way I think, come hang out with us at the New Orleans Investment Conference.
Dana will be there. You going to be there this year? Not sure yet.
I won’t commit. Okay. All right.
Bronson, you going to be there?
Bronson Hill: I’m not sure. I’ve got to see.
Russell Gray: All right. Well, Brian, Brian, the top shelf, because I’m looking at it. Dana, Brian and I are all going to be there.
Come join in New Orleans. You’ll love it. We can have oysters together at Dragos.
Bronson Hill: Love it. Love it. Awesome.
Okay, guys, I think we got Dana today. I talked about you. Okay.
We got everybody. Guys, appreciate you being here. Thank you so much.
Thank you to our guests. If you guys give us some love, give them an emoji, give them a great job, guys. I thought this was a great panel.
Love that we were able to put these together. And thank you, guys. Thank you to our panelists.
I’m so grateful for each of you. I thank you to our audience as well. Look forward to connecting with everybody soon.
Thanks, everyone.
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