What’s the best way to Vet Operators and deals in today’s market? Our featured guest, Paul Moore—an author, expert from BiggerPockets, and Founder and Managing Partner of Wellings Capital, shares expert insights in today’s episode.
Paul Moore stands as a seasoned authority with an engineering degree and an MBA from Ohio State. His journey includes co-founding and strategically selling a staffing firm. In 1999, he shifted to real estate, marking the beginning of a chapter filled with over 85 investments and exits. Beyond business, Paul’s journey includes appearances on HGTV’s House Hunters and influential roles in property management, notably contributing to the development of a Hyatt hotel and a thriving multifamily project.
In this episode, Paul talks about the intricacies of self-storage facility investments. As the Founder and Managing Partner of Wellings Capital, he takes a pragmatic dive into real estate risks, reflects on the dynamics of opportunities and risks in 2020, and sheds light on the rising demand for RV parks. Discover seven practical paths to financial success and gain insights into investing in education and passive income.
Join us as Paul shares seasoned, down-to-earth perspectives, providing valuable insights into the strategic world of real estate ventures. Tune in now!
Get my new book: https://bronsonequity.com/fireyourself
Full Transcript:
Bronson Hill: All right, so I am so excited about this interview! This is Paul Moore, a good friend of mine, great guy, author, does all kinds of stuff on BiggerPockets, and you’re gonna love what he has to share.
You got a couple amazing books out, one on multifamily, one of the first books I ever read, if not the first book I read on multifamily, called The Perfect Investment. Then he moved from that to go from The Perfect Investment to The More Perfect Investment, which he considers to be self-storage.
What you’re gonna love about this interview is just the way that he breaks things down very simply. He talks about vetting deals, they vetted something like 247 different operators over the last six months, how they did that, what they’re looking for, and how you can take advantage of his learning, and just how he structured things.
I think it’s super interesting as a passive investor. Talk about RV parks and mobile home parks and self-storage. Super great.
So let’s jump in.
Welcome to the Mailbox Money Show! This is Bronson Hill. I’m here with Paul Moore, who is a good friend, great friend of mine, who basically works and does all kinds of stuff within. He started in multifamily, he is now doing self-storage, wrote a book called The Perfect Investment. It was actually one of the first books I read, if not the first book I read on multifamily investing, a number of years ago. He’s written another book called Storing Up Profits.
It’s about self-storage. They went from the perfect investment to another investment. That’s better than perfect. He’s a Welling’s capital group. That’s right.
And like I mentioned BiggerPockets. So we’re gonna talk about how to vet operators and deals in today’s market. Paul is always great talking with you.
How you doing today?
Paul Moore: Yeah, it’s great to be here. I’m doing great. Thank you.
Bronson Hill: Awesome, man! Well, I know I see you everywhere, you’re doing all kinds of stuff. I admire how much content you put out there, just how well-spoken you are. It’s always great to hear you share. So, why don’t you give people that don’t know you just a bit of your background, who you are, and what your involvement in real estate is?
Paul Moore: Yeah, so I sold my company in 97 to a public firm, moved to Virginia, started a nonprofit organization, got bored pretty quick, started flipping houses, then flipping lots at a resort. I built seven or eight houses, which was a huge mistake for a guy who doesn’t know how to tighten my own doorknob. I’m just saying, just saying.
Then I got into commercial real estate after about 10 or 11 years of that. And like you said, I got into multifamily syndication and thought I had the perfect investment. But you know what, Bronson? I realized that the perfect investment’s not perfect if you have to overpay, if you have to over-leverage, if you have to use risky debt, and if you have to assume continually rising rents and decreasing expenses.
And I’m not saying everybody did that. I mean, you and I both know wonderful multifamily syndicators who didn’t. But I was becoming increasingly tempted, and I thought, you know, I just don’t really see that this is the best path for me. In fact, I also thought, as an investor, I need diversification. So I was tempted again to get involved in self-storage and then mobile home parks.
And I thought, there’s no way. I mean, I read The One Thing by Gary Keller and Jay Papasan—you did too—and you know, you can’t be great, I mean truly great, at a bunch of different things, especially at my age. So we decided to build a fund, and we’re on fund number six now. Our goal is to be diversified across different asset types, geographies, strategies, places in the capital stack, and, of course, the best operators we can find in each asset type.
Bronson Hill: So yeah, let’s talk about that for a minute, because I know when you write a book called The Perfect Investment, and it really is an excellent book. If people have not read it. It’s a great book about multifamily.
You know, it’s interesting when you only have one asset. There’s a saying, I used to do medical device sales and they say if you’re a surgeon, or, you know, let’s say whatever you do, that’s what you always see. So, for example, if you only have a hammer, then everything looks like a nail, right?
So if you only have one asset that you work with, everything oh, it’s got to be this, it’s got to be this. And multifamily’s gone from being a very in favor asset, very in vogue, to being a very out of favor asset very quickly within about a year, year and a half. It’s kind of like multifamily investors are struggling. And we’ve got a couple deals that are struggling.
How did you and again, they always say it’s better to be early than it is to be late, right? If there’s some sort of move, or things happen, whatever
So you obviously were a little early You moved a few a couple years early. There’s more of a run-up in multifamily But what were some of the reasons that you made that switch in a self-storage from the perfect investment to a more perfect investment?
Paul Moore: I don’t really think self-storage is more perfect. And I know you’re being tongue-in-cheek, and so am I. We’re smiling here if you’re just listening to this. But in all seriousness, I like the fact that, well, multifamily was just so popular, and so many new operators were just jumping right in. There are so many guru training courses. And self-storage had one or two training courses.
And there are 52 to 54,000 facilities in the U.S., and half of those are owned by a single operator, by a single-asset operator. A lot of those are mom-and-pop. And so we like we invested in one last week that was in a beautiful location at, quote, Maine and Maine, in a downtown area. But the rents were almost half, were just a little over 50% of market rents for the whole city. And they’re 99% occupied, no surprise.
But when you get these mom-and-pop-run self-storage assets, there is potential upside. And another thing I liked is, you know, in self-storage, if I raise your rent on a multifamily unit, you know, let’s say you’re paying 2,000 a month in rent. If I raise that 10%, you might move out rather than pay the extra $200 a month. But if you’re paying a hundred dollars for a storage unit and I raise your rent by 10%, and it’s a monthly lease.
You’re probably not going to get a U-Haul, get your friends together and spend your weekend just to move your junk. Excuse me, your treasures. Down the street. Just to save $10 a month. Especially when the guy down the street might raise theirs ten bucks next month.
And so it’s got a sort of a different stickiness and dynamic. And that’s one of the things I like. But to be clear, what I like more is the diversification across multiple great, what I would consider, great recession-resistant.
Hopefully asset types.
Bronson Hill: Yeah, absolutely.
No, it is interesting. I love what you shared because, yeah, if you’re 50% down on rent, you can raise rent 10% right away. And then, like, every six months, you can probably raise it 10% until you get close to market.
And people aren’t gonna, because people are gonna say, well, do I really want to go move it and go pay more money somewhere else? Or maybe, I mean, what’s the plan to raise rents or something like that? You do it at 10% every six months until you’re kind of close to market, or what? That’s the plan usually?
Paul Moore: Yeah, so let’s say the rent on that.
Let me just use real numbers. The rent on that, I believe, was 151 a month, and the market rent was like—no, I think it was 131, and market rent was 250.
Bronson Hill: Oh wow.
Paul Moore: And so, to get from 130 to 250 and actually, they could go further because it’s a higher quality asset in a better location, 99% occupied but anyway, to get there, they’d probably go 50% of the distance in one day.
Bronson Hill: In one day? Okay.
Paul Moore: I mean, there’s gonna be a very low move-out at that point. Yeah, but think about this. Let’s say ten or twenty percent of people move out. Guess what they can charge on those ten or twenty percent now vacant? They can charge market rate on those.
And so, it’s not a bad thing to see a move-out when you’re moving like that. So let’s say fifty percent of the way in one day, three to six months later another twenty percent, three to six months later another twenty percent. So you’re at ninety percent of market in about. I believe that would put you at about a year, a year and a half.
Bronson Hill: Wow, that’s amazing.
So, how do you, I know we talked about this before on the call. You don’t actually operate these yourself, which has been great. My book came out called Fire Yourself: Replace Your Working Income with Passive Income in Three Years or Less.
So it’s the idea of how do you scale, but you’ve even done this and we do this as well. We partner with great operators. How do you identify great operators in what you do?
Paul Moore: Yeah, that’s tough. We recently did a count and said, okay. We just said we just interviewed, we just reviewed 247 operators with deals in a six-month period. And out of the 247, we said no to 242.
Following Warren Buffett, Buffett’s footsteps, I hope, if I can pronounce it right. Warren said, great investors say no a lot. The greatest investors say no almost all the time. And we’re trying to do that.
So we do due diligence. We try to see, how long they’ve been in the business. We check out their track record, their team. We fly in to meet their team. We fly out to see their asset, usually once announced and then often once unannounced. That it may be the same or a different asset.
We do deep criminal background checks, not only on them, but the individuals in their company. And not only that, but their property managers and their lenders. If they have, if they have Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae, it’s one thing. But if they have a small lender, let’s say.
So for example, a mobile home park might have a lender for the park, but a chattel lender for the mobile homes. Well, we’ll check out them. We’ll do a background check on them. And once recently, we found out one of them had a serious record of fraud and had been in jail for financial fraud in real estate. And we’re like, time out. We do not want to do business with you if they’re gonna stay involved.
And so we, check out how much skin they have in the game, how much cash of their own that they have to lose. Of course, we’re checking out their underwriting, their lending. We want to see them like that deal I mentioned in New Mexico about three minutes ago. That was all-cash deal.
Chances are that operator will stabilize it over, like I said, 12 to 18 months and bring up their value significantly and then add conservative debt. So we’re checking out their debt.
We’re checking out their plans, their strategy, and a lot more. We even do an NOI on it now on most of our deals.
So an NOI audit would be having a third party come in and trace the money, follow it to see if the net operating income that they’re reporting is really what they’re saying.
Bronson Hill: Yeah, that’s great, man. I’m just curious when you, obviously, for an individual, it’s hard to do. But for those that are listening, maybe they’re trying to do a fund or do something similar. How do you find 247 groups to audit or to do this over six months? Are you just, every one you can basically hear about, you’re just kind of doing an initial, and then you kind of take it a step further? And then, see if you’re gonna fly out and do the diligence and stuff?
Paul Moore: Yeah, so we’re getting a reputation as someone who is serious about doing preferred equity. So a lot of these deals have come to us through brokers, through debt and equity brokers who are arranging preferred equity. Sometimes it’s the real estate broker who knows that their partner has a gap. There might be, you know, 50% leverage instead of 70, and instead of 30% equity, they’re only getting 25. And so now there’s this—whatever—that would leave a 25% gap in the middle of the capital stack.
And so, we’re getting a reputation as somebody who can close those deals, even behind Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which is really hard to do. And so that’s one of the ways we’re doing this. We just spread the net as far as we can. And I meet people at BiggerPockets, I meet people online. I have people, you know, contact me liike, I had probably two or three people call me or email last week saying that they had deals, and they wanted to know if we’d be interested.
So, there’s just a whole wide array of how we do it.
Bronson Hill: Yeah, let’s talk a little bit about just kind of what’s happening right now in the market. We’re recording this, kind of, mid-November. This should come out within the next few weeks here.
Obviously, multifamily has changed a lot because of interest rates coming up. Has self-storage been impacted similarly, as far as valuations coming down because of the debt situation? Or how would it be similar and different to how multifamily has been affected?
Or do you guys do a lot of fixed debt in general? Or I’d just love to hear a little more about the debt, you know what I’m saying.
Paul Moore: I mean, about probably 35 or 40 percent of the deals in our current fund are all cash. And then, 50, I believe 50-plus percent are fixed debt. A lot of those are for long-term, fixed-rate debt. Some of that’s been assumed, like I can think of one that was, like, 3.7 percent.
Others are new debt, but it might be hopefully 40, 50, 60 percent LTV. And then, a very small percentage, from one operator in our current fund, is floating-rate debt, mostly with rate caps. So, and it was already acquired at a high rate in the first place. The underwriting already assumed about the current interest rate, as far as how cap rate expansion has affected the values.
Yeah, I mean, self-storage, mobile home parks, RV parks, apartments they all have a similar, they all have the same formula. And your listeners know the formula because they’ve been listening to you.
But, of course, just as a reminder, it’s value equals net operating income divided by cap rate. And so, if the cap rate goes from and if I do math live, it’s gonna be trouble, my friend but here we go.
Let me try. If the cap rate goes from four to six percent. I mean, your denominator just went up by 50 percent, which, you know, again, that could lower the value of the asset by 50 percent.
And so, what are you gonna do about that? And again, I might have had the math wrong there, but you get the point. A tiny move in cap rate can create a significant increase or decrease in asset value, especially when the cap rates are really, really low at acquisition.
So, how do you offset that?
Well, one way is long term hold. I mean, if I’ve got an asset that I acquired in 2020 with 12-year debt on it at 3.7 percent well, I’m not as concerned about that short-term movement in value. In fact, I might not be concerned at all.
Number two, you look for mom-and-pop-owned asset like the one I mentioned in New Mexico, and a dozen more we could talk about. Where the net operating income improvement is able to keep up with, or even sometimes outrun, the cap rate expansion.
And so, again, if I bought an asset in Phoenix and the cap rate was four percent, let’s say the income, let’s do the math $100,000 in net operating income, divided by a four percent cap rate. The value on that is $2.5 million, if I did the math right in my head. So, it’s $100,000 divided by four.
But if that’s now $100,000 divided by five, it’s not $2.5 million anymore now it’s $2 million. And you can check and see if I did the math right on that, Bronson, I don’t know. But it’s the same ratio, at least. Just by a one-point movement, you lost 20% of the value.
Well, if you can increase the net operating income by that same ratio, let’s say 20% then you could easily keep the same value of the asset. And, in fact, we have a lot of assets that we’ve seen, that we’ve reviewed, and some we’ve invested in, where the net operating income is able to outrun the cap rate expansion, at least so far.
There’s no guarantee that would continue, but as a public firm—we’re not publicly traded, but we are public—we have to get valuations of our assets. And so far, we’ve been pretty happy with the valuations we’ve seen.
Bronson Hill: Yeah, it’s been interesting. I think a lot of multifamily investors, we have a deal, for example, we bought for $60 million in Jacksonville. And we increased rents by 25%, but because it was 80% occupied and not 90, you have to get bridge debt, which dramatically decreases the amount somebody’s able to pay.
And so, we’re looking at valuations of, like, $40 million or less on a $60 million deal. And we look at it, we’re like, man, we don’t feel like we renovated—210 of the units of the… you know, this is almost a 400-unit deal. And so, we’re seeing things like that.
But it’s really, I think, to me, just driven home the idea of long-term fixed debt, or assumptions, or things like that. And those are very unique situations now. Or, if you can find a, you know, three or four percent fixed, kind of long-term, with seven or eight years left, there are those out there.
That would actually be a strategy now—to sell your debt your long-term deals that you had with a fixed rate—and sell it at a premium because you’re able to do it.
What are some things you think investors should be watching out for? Either to be aware of and concerned about, or opportunities that you’re seeing?
Paul Moore: Yeah, so, some opportunities one thing we really like is RV parks. We wanted to invest in RV parks systematically for years, and we didn’t have an operator that knew how to do that well. We finally found one, and so we’ve been really excited to be investing in that.
There’s a ton of data around the RV park. RV sort of increase I want to say explosion, but my wonderful compliance director is going to be listening to this, and they don’t like the word explosion.
But seriously, there’s been a large expansion in RV sales. Five times as many people went out in an RV for the first time in 2020 as in any previous year. including 2019, because you couldn’t do anything else, right?
Bronson Hill: You pretty much had to stay home or you had an RV.
Paul Moore: Yeah, right, right. So, since we’re not in COVID anymore, you might ask, “Well, wait a minute, has RV usage plummeted?”
New RV sales are down from 2021 and 2022 to now because of interest rates, there’s no COVID, and the economy is slowing. But all those RVs that were sold number one—are out there.
Number two, we’ve got a first in world history, Bronson. We’ve got two firsts in world history. One is the remote work revolution, which allows people to travel and work. And so, these RV parks that we’re investing in have really good internet and cell service and allow people to travel there to work.
Number three, we’ve got another first in world history, and that is the RV-sharing model. So, like Airbnb and Uber, you can actually lease an RV for a weekend, a week, or a month now. And somebody you and I both know—Whitney Elkins-Hutten.
She bought an RV, and she put it out there, and she made a trim. She made half of the money she paid for the RV in the first six months on one of those leasing programs.
So that’s a business strategy in itself. But my point is, all this is putting incredible pressure on RV parks, which are obviously limited in number like everything else.
And so, the RV parks the nicer ones, the ones with a lot of amenities, the ones with Wi-Fi and cell phone service, lakes, fishing ponds, and all these nice amenities are in very high demand.
Bronson Hill: Yeah. Yeah, it’s amazing. I think it’s just interesting to watch trends, right?
There was a story of a guy who I’ve heard it multiple times, so I think it’s true, but he basically, I guess when you buy a new car, it doesn’t show up on your credit report for like two weeks. So this guy went out during COVID, and over a 10-day period or something, he got 30 new cars.
And so his credit was totally jacked, but he took all those cars, rented them out on Turo, and kind of saw what was happening. And he made a ton of money, right?
So if you can get ahead of a trend this idea with RV parks is like, first of all, the RVs are out there. People are using them. People now have had an experience with them. And it’s similar to how Zoom calls used to be.
I used to do Zoom calls with investors had a thousand Zoom calls starting four or five years ago and half the people didn’t know how to use them. Now? Now, if you don’t know how to use Zoom, like, every single—everybody’s grandma knows how to use Zoom. It’s like, everyone is on Zoom.
So it’s just interesting how trends change and how people say, “Hey, this is a way I can experience the outdoors.”
And you’re right. I mean, good RV parks, you can be paying 80 or 100 bucks a night to stay there, even with an RV. It’s like, that was old hotel prices. Now you’re paying to have power and all the different amenities that go with that as well.
How many RV parks have you guys purchased then?
Paul Moore: We have invested in three RV parks in our current fund.
Bronson Hill: Okay. That’s awesome. That’s awesome Yeah, I love looking at diversified things like that What would you say?
I mean, obviously no one has a crystal ball. We don’t know what’s going to happen. But planning going forward.
Do you think rates are gonna I think right now we’re kind of close to historical long-term norms? Maybe a little higher, but historically, I mean, it’s kind of where things have been if you look at the ups and downs.
Do you think we’re gonna stay where we are? Or do you think there’s gonna be some crisis where the Fed has to all of a sudden provide liquidity, and we’re in a lower interest rate environment again?
Yeah, you know, I am not in a really good place.
Paul Moore: I mean, of course, we know, I can excuse myself away by saying, you know, those who live by the crystal ball will be forced to eat glass. But when I look at Warren Buffett, Charlie Munger, or Howard Marks, and these other guys who won’t really predict the direction, I just think, you know, as much as I might have a little opinion, I just think it’s best just to say, I really don’t know.
Bronson Hill: Yeah, well, and that’s a good point too, because I think right now I’ve watched a lot of investors kind of start to get cold feet around real estate. Because they’ve just seen some challenges in their deals personally, or maybe something they’re operating, or a house, or just seeing that, okay, this is a challenging time right now with interest rates and other things. But, you know, really, the best time to invest is when a lot of people are not investing.
So the fact that we’re seeing—I mean, I don’t know if you’d agree with this—but it seems like we’re seeing much better deals than we were a couple of years ago. Because deals have to really make sense. Like the one you mentioned in Mexico, it’s got to be something that really makes sense. There are no longer, at least for multifamily, 30 buyers at the table competing, doing a million dollars hard. They want—like, it’s more of a—it’s different types of situations.
Paul Moore: Yeah, yeah, it’s absolutely true. It really is. One thing I’ll say is that Buffett and Munger claim that in 55, maybe more, years of working together, they have never made an acquisition or a disposition based on interest rates or the current economy.
They’re doing it because the asset, if they’re acquiring it at least, has tremendous intrinsic value—meaning they believe the true, or at least the potential, value of the property is much, much higher than what they’re paying for. Buffett said, “Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.” And that’s where he focuses his effort. And that’s what we’re trying to do as well.
Bronson Hill: That’s one of the reasons we connect a lot, Paul. I quote Buffett all the time too. I think he’s one of the best investors ever, and his quotes are absolutely incredible.
So, if someone was just starting out, what kind of words of wisdom— and you’ve been doing this a long time— what sort of considerations would you have for somebody who’s new, starting out?
Paul Moore: Yeah, you know, I mean, if they’re starting out in commercial real estate investing, the last one-third of my book Storing Up Profits has advice for people starting out.
We have seven different paths we’ve marked out in there. One is to stair-step up from smaller to larger assets. Number two is to be a capital raiser, which has a lot of risk with the SEC. Three is to be a deal finder— and I know a guy doing that successfully right now.
Number four would be just to go big from day one. If you have a lot of money, you retired from the NBA, or won the lottery, got an inheritance… I haven’t met anybody like that yet. Waiting for that one, right?
Yeah.
Number five would be to get a job. And you might think, wait a minute, I want to fire myself! Somebody wrote a great book like that. Get a job? What’s that?
Bronson Hill: I heard about that book.
Paul Moore: Yeah, right. And so, why would I want to get a job?
Well, the point is not to take a long-term job, but to get a job, you know, as a property manager for self-storage, or an RV park, or a mobile home park to learn the business from the inside out.
And then, let’s see… Path number six would be to invest passively. Find somebody else, invest heavily with them, and try to learn the business slowly through them.
And then, number seven would be to find a paid coach or an unpaid mentor. And so, those would be seven different paths that I’d recommend.
I talked to a guy the other day in Oregon who actually did what I would do if I was starting right now in my 20s. He bought a small piece of land I think it was a couple of acres or less and he built outdoor storage on it.
And he just, you know, basically set it up for boat and RV storage, got a fence, put an electronic gate on it… and he actually had, I think, three or four hundred thousand dollars in it, if I recall.
And he sold it for seven or eight… eight hundred thousand dollars. And now he’s stair-stepping up to the next level.
And so, I like that.
Bronson Hill: Yeah, that’s great.
No, it’s—there are many paths to do it. I always say, you know, if you have money, you can kind of go out and try to find deals or passively invest on your own.
A lot of people, like myself when I started, didn’t have a lot of money, but I just had the desire to learn. And so, I think whoever you are, you know, if you invest in your own education, that’s the best investment you can make.
What’s one resource that’s kind of helped you on your path, Paul?
Paul Moore: Yeah, you know, I think that the book I mentioned earlier, The One Thing by Gary Keller and Jay Papasan, really helped because it reminded me, you know, that investing doesn’t necessarily have to be—
I was a shiny object chaser. I thought the more, the better. The more cities—if I can become a multifamily guy in five cities, that’s better than two. Or 20 cities is better than five, you know?
And just that resource, and The One Thing podcast to go with it, have really helped me remember to maintain our focus.
And it’s funny—Buffett says, diversification is for people who really don’t know what they’re doing. And I got mad at Buffett. I’m like, Come on! How could you say that?
And then I realized, wait a minute. He meant if one person diversifies. If one person tries—let’s say Dairy Queen, which he owns—tried to go back and buy the paper company that made the cardboard and the paper bags for Dairy Queen, and furthermore, got back and bought the land where the timber was, where they cut down the trees—that would be dumb.
But for Buffett, diversification means having best-in-class operators at the helm of 108 different companies that he invests in. That’s smart diversification. And I think the one thing would agree with that as well.
Bronson Hill: I hope.
Yeah, yeah, it’s interesting diversification. You know, he says, Yeah, I said, it’s helpful when you don’t know what you’re doing. But, you know, it cuts you both ways. So if you have a loss, it will limit your losses if you’re diversified, but it will also limit your gains.
So, he does at one point say, You only need three to six wonderful companies to get really wildly wealthy, which is kind of wild if you think about it. But you just put all your eggs in one basket and watch that basket very carefully.
So, I know people that are invested in 50 to 70 different passive deals, and I’m just thinking, That is a full-time job! Yours is like that’s so much diversification.
But again, there gets to be a change where, instead of putting 50 or 100K per deal, you start putting, you know, two, three, five hundred K per deal. It just feels a little different.
And it’s kind of a mindset thing, I think, even for passive investors. Because whatever your minimum is—you know, Paul—like, a lot of, like, 80% of the people put the minimum in, right?
So if your minimum is 100K, like, most people put 100K in. But I think it’s just having a real sense of, you know, what you want.
Paul, I just want to say, I just so appreciate you. All our interactions, man—I just, I always learn something. You’re always adding value to others.
I know you’re also really passionate about human trafficking. It’s one of my big—my big, my one thing is to try to end modern-day human slavery in the world. So I’m working at that, and even in a small way, trying to do that.
But I just want to appreciate you for all the value you bring me.
Imagine, you know, I want people to check out your books. They’re incredible.
But how can people get in touch with you and follow what you’re doing?
Paul Moore: Yeah, they can follow me on Twitter X at Paul or in the @PaulMooreInvest or they can come to my website. It’s wellings W-e-l-l-i-n-g-s wellings capital calm and then get some fun free special reports at wellings capital calm resources
Bronson Hill: Awesome, Paul. Thanks so much for being here, man. Really appreciate you.
Paul Moore: Hey, man same here great to see you again Thank you.
Bronson Hill: Thanks.
All right, so I love that interview with Paul Moore. Great guy. Super down-to-earth. Just really trying to see how he can help people really move the needle forward in their own life.
And that’s, I think, what this show is about, really, too, right? The Mailbox Money Show. It’s just—how can you start developing passive income for yourself? What are the things you can do? What are the tools that you need to be able to get there?
Well, it just starts with learning. And you can just start learning. You know, the best investment you make is in your own education. You start educating yourself, you’re gonna start to learn.
And when you try, you do something. It won’t go perfectly. Maybe you’ll make a mistake. But you’ll learn. You’ll learn something along the way. Learning, I think, is more important than just what it is you’re investing in. Because if you’re learning, it helps.
I mean, there’s so many health benefits to it. You’re growing. There’s—just even for your spirit, it’s great. But also for your wealth. And a lot of times, when we do have a loss, we do lose money. It does actually—it can teach you something.
If you don’t learn, it doesn’t teach you anything, obviously. But if you learn something, then nothing is wasted. And so, I look at great investors. They’ve always made mistakes. They’ve always learned. And by learning, that’s how we get better and better and better.
And so, when it’s actually really experienced investors, they’ve made plenty. See here.
Let me tell you, all the mistakes—they’re super open about it. But it’s just a great way to be able to help others in their growth.
So, check out Paul’s stuff online—Wellings Capital. And, you know, again, check out my new book if you haven’t. It’s called Fire Yourself: Replace Your Working Income with Passive Income in Three Years or Less. It should be in the show notes, as well as the description below here if you’re watching the video.
And I look forward to seeing you on the next episode of The Mailbox Money Show.
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